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Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#71

Post by dmix »

HWR_14 wrote: post #62
illwrks wrote: post #22

I was about to say they have a powerful imagination to see camels in that eroded rock... however after a quick search, there are better photos online: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-2-000-year-old-...

Don't forget, they look so eroded because the sculptures have been eroding for 8,000+ years. Also, the original article (original with regard the this HN thread, not the older article you linked to) talked about examining the tool marks. It's not just examining the large shape, it's about seeing the method of construction on a smaller scale.

I wonder if it was at ground level too when they carved it...

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#72

Post by arbitrage »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #46

This headline seems odd. It feels like it's implying that carving a life size camel into rock is more technologically sophisticated than assembling Stonehenge or the pyramids and therefore we should be surprised. I get that they thought they were newer, and now think they are older, still strange headline to lead with.

the headline says 'older'. the implication that it somehow implies something more subversive is coming from your own expectations.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#73

Post by sophacles »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #58
bruce343434 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems really standard for any archeological article, sadly. Every time with the bait.

It's harder than it looks. My own photos of my sites/finds have rarely turned out interesting either. Usually things are simply an unremarkable pile of stones, unidentifiable blobs, or far too massive for the camera. That's leaving aside the ethical issues with photographing funerary sites/remains, which most archaeologists avoid by simply not releasing any such photographs to the media.

Personally, id find those interesting too - I've always found archaeology grabs my attention.

Once I asked a local archaeologist about why articles are always like that, and she told me that there's also a problem with looters. They try to only release pictures that don't give away the location, to prevent looters from ruining a site. Not sure if that's a general thing or her specific area of expertise.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#74

Post by afterburner »

illwrks wrote: post #22

I was about to say they have a powerful imagination to see camels in that eroded rock... however after a quick search, there are better photos online: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-2-000-year-old-...

That article only mentions 2000 year old sculptures, not 8000, so maybe that one just hasn't been as weather worn yet.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#75

Post by pizzaknife »

rbalicki wrote: post #64
duxup wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a note left on a piece of Greek pottery that said something like " made this and I bet can't do any better." Wonderful slice of some potter rivalry from long long ago ;)

There's a lot of bawdy graffiti that was discovered in Pompeii: https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-p...

this is hilarious and incredibly interesting, thanks for the link!

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#76

Post by ducktective »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #67
ducktective wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the climate there was different 8k years ago, why did they depict camels which dwell deserts and hot climates?

It would have still been hot and relatively arid, just less so. These camels are native to all of North Africa, Arabia, and the middle east. There's a lot of different environments in that range.

The theory parent is mentioning, doesn't just talk about "less hot and less arid" but a lush green and very favorable for agriculture.

If these people went as far as to carve camels in stones, that would mean these animals were prevalent in their areas and way of life which is in direct conflict with assuming their land were anything but hot and arid.

I have heard of the theory about different climate of Egypt and Iraq in ancient times. It seems logical that civilization should have started in a climate supportive for mass agriculture.

It's depressing when we think of earth's climate change over a time scale unimaginable for humans. The theory implies (at least for me) that the decline of quality of life in ME/NorthAfrica has more to do with a random external change not in control of insignificant humans.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#77

Post by Grustaf »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #57
Grustaf wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few "White Americans" alive today have ravaged any American Indian sites. Even if you have the deranged notion that people should bear the responsibility for what their ancestors did hundreds of years ago, it's still just tiny fraction of current Americans that should be the target of your anger.

I understand where you're coming from, but in the interests of education it should be pointed out that a significant amount of destruction of native sites has occurred within "our" lifetimes. For instance, many suburbs in Chandler, AZ were directly built on bulldozed Hohokam pueblos in the 50s-80s. The power plant in Needles, CA was built over what was formerly the largest geoglyph in North America during the 70s, de…

That's insane, one would have thought that would have been protected at least since the early 1900s.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#78

Post by AlotOfReading »

sophacles wrote: post #73
AlotOfReading wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's harder than it looks. My own photos of my sites/finds have rarely turned out interesting either. Usually things are simply an unremarkable pile of stones, unidentifiable blobs, or far too massive for the camera. That's leaving aside the ethical issues with photographing funerary sites/remains, which most archaeologists avoid by simply not releasing any such photographs to the media.

Personally, id find those interesting too - I've always found archaeology grabs my attention. Once I asked a local archaeologist about why articles are always like that, and she told me that there's also a problem with looters. They try to only release pictures that don't give away the location, to prevent looters from ruining a site. Not sure if that's a general thing or her specific area of expertise.

Depends on the location. You usually don't release wide landscape shots if that's a major concern, but super localized photos aren't necessarily an issue. Not all areas take the same degree of precaution though (e.g., scheduled monuments in the UK are pretty much public).

Anyway, if you'd like an example of an "onsite" photo, I've uploaded one from an ancient settlement (2k+ years old): https://i.imgur.com/0ITzYZD.png

Bonus points if you can figure out which country it's from or better yet, pinpoint the location to within 50 miles.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#79

Post by MisterBastahrd »

smoyer wrote: post #13

Imagine how much more creative we'd tend to be if we didn't have television and Internet distractions! What do you do after a long day of herding livestock? Take your chert, grab a drink and carve some camels!

My kids (10yo, 9yo, 8yo) got grounded for a week for not listening and misbehaving, with no TV or tablets... and the amount of bickering and complaining about each other dropped like a rock because there's nothing to fight over.

Re: Life-size camel sculptures in Saudi Arabia are older than Stonehenge, pyramids

#80

Post by betwixthewires »

ducktective wrote: post #66
teleforce wrote: post #40

The northern part of saudi Arabia is actually part of the Fertile Crescent also known as 'The Cradle of Civilization' extending from Iraq where human first started cultivating and herding animals [1]. Yes it's now mostly desert but it used to be greener than it's today. This is an excellent documentary where teams of archeological experts from around the world trying to unravel the mystery of one of the earliest man…

If the climate there was different 8k years ago, why did they depict camels which dwell deserts and hot climates?

You should know that camels (like horses) originally evolved in North America, in far north latitudes. They're not from the desert originally, they're from the cold northern icy tundra. So needless to say they're very adaptable.
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