Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 673 posts

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#471

Post by whimsicalism »

frogpelt wrote: post #444
oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Apple would pull out of China if their sales dropped 50% because they wouldn't.

Cutting all possible connections with China is counter-productive to de-escalating tensions with them and integrating them into a rules-based system.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#472

Post by baybal2 »

Angostura wrote: post #460
tablespoon wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. IMHO, cooperating with an authoritarian regime in this way should be illegal, sort of like a sanctions violation. Cook and Pachai should go to jail for this. That consequence might clarify their thinking a little.

Hmmm. Withdraw the app and you go to jail. Don’t withdraw the app and your Russian employees go to jail

[flagged]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#473

Post by Siira »

Aunche wrote: post #424
oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

Bullshit. The Russians won’t be able to stop using iPhones, and with Apple out of Russia, the OS can be free from Russian influence.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#474

Post by lovecg »

whimsicalism wrote: post #467
michaelt wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because there are shades of grey, doesn’t mean we can’t tell black from white.

I am not convinced that we can tell black from white. I also think that there ought to be a certain level of relativism when it comes to judging political systems. Is it democratic that an unelected group of 9 people can unilaterally essentially decide the law of the land in the US?

How is the US constitutional system remotely relevant in this discussion?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#475

Post by whimsicalism »

prepend wrote: post #435
fsflover wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual problem is not that Apple removed the app. It's that there is no other way to install the app if Apple removes it from their store.

I disagree. I think the problem is that Apple is choosing to support dictators by removing this app. The ability to side load apps is a smokescreen because only 1% of people would use any alternate means. So even if they had alternate app stores, Apple removing it from the main App Store is egregious. Similar to how it’s terrible that Google removed it even though it’s available in alternate stores. (Of course Apple…

> I disagree. I think the problem is that Apple is choosing to support dictators by removing this app.

Is he still a dictator if he would win contested elections?

The polling on Putin in Russia is pretty darn clearcut, don't see how you can look at the numbers I do and conclude anything other than that Putin has the tacit support of most of the population.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#476

Post by mbesto »

Aunche wrote: post #424
oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture. Pulling out from Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections. If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

> This is the kind of moral framework that creates cancel culture.

Cancel culture means a lot of different things to different people. You might want to clarify your interpretation here.

> Russia will decrease many Russian's standard of living, but will have zero impact in stopping them from rigging elections.

Wow, this was a mental leap. So by giving into already established corruption of government officials in Russia, you're making it better for Russians standard of living by further having a corrupt government? I don't know how you reached this conclusion. There are thousands of businesses in Russia (and probably hundreds that are large and US centric), but only one government. One company pulling out is hardly going to make a dent in providing jobs in a country as large as Russia.

> If everyone cuts trade for moral reasons, then there's no incentive for us not to point nukes at each other again.

So, you're implying that if we didn't have global trade then nations would fight more? I don't think I've ever heard this interpretation before - care to elaborate?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#477

Post by megabless123 »

CreateAccntAgn wrote: post #459
oliwarner wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

Some of Americas closest allies are authoritarian regimes. Why would anyone expect profit moticated companies like Google or Apple to have higher moral standards than the elected representative US goverment where it operates from itself?

> Why would anyone expect profit moticated companies like Google or Apple to have higher moral standards than the elected representative US goverment where it operates from itself?

Because elected representatives are not moral authorities

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#478

Post by Siira »

smoldesu wrote: post #453
latexr wrote: post #266

From Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1]: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this, HKmap.live[2], and Telegram[3], he seems to be mighty confused about who “others” refers to in that quote. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live [3]: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-telegram-belarus/

Apparently, privacy is only a human right when your government considers you a human. Otherwise, Apple takes no issue enterprising on your lack of freedom.

I remember the CSAM scandal being a US exclusive, so it’s more apt to say the illusion of privacy is a human right for the middle class.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#479

Post by tailspin2019 »

oliwarner wrote: post #450
m3kw9 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Casually suggesting that Apple should pull out from all authoritarian countries is both funny and naive

That is what I think, but that's not the point of my post. The part you're reading around is the people here defending Apple and Google's behaviour, because they're just doing what's right for their employees. Doing what's right for Apple and Google's employees is not setting up offices in front of Russia's loaded gun, which we've only known about for… hundreds of years . Apple and Google put their employees at risk.…

I'm also naive, and regardless, fully in agreement with you.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#480

Post by baybal2 »

chupasaurus wrote: post #431
baybal2 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will, because the mobilisation will of course not work. Nobody want to die for Putin. That's why he switched to mercenaries in Ukraine, because use of regular troops regularly returning to Russia in bodybags was about to become the straw which would've broken camel's back.

Those mercenaries are in the first tier of reserves anyway and it wouldn't be their choice but army on mobilization.

And if they are, then maybe, it's even better.

If their first option is this bad, then others must be completely useless.

Post reply on HN