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Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

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Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#31

Post by throwaway0a5e »

vgeek wrote: post #21

At least the government has already gone after the big fish and common loopholes that corporations and the ultra-wealthy perpetually exploit to maintain single digits tax liabilities. Oh, wait....

A few big fish is nothing compared to a net of every small fish independent contractor, small business and dude with a side gig who doesn't report that income.

The cynical take is that it's not about the money, it's about having the power of arbitrary enforcement coupled with the longstanding ability to freeze accounts and seize assets in response to tax evasion. Imagine if the feds has an "off switch" for most small businesses and self employed individuals they could use to enforce compliance.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#33

Post by vgeek »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #31
vgeek wrote: post #21

At least the government has already gone after the big fish and common loopholes that corporations and the ultra-wealthy perpetually exploit to maintain single digits tax liabilities. Oh, wait....

A few big fish is nothing compared to a net of every small fish independent contractor, small business and dude with a side gig who doesn't report that income. The cynical take is that it's not about the money, it's about having the power of arbitrary enforcement coupled with the longstanding ability to freeze accounts and seize assets in response to tax evasion. Imagine if the feds has an "off switch" for most small…

Yes, but is it more effective to catch and eat a 10lb trout, of which there are plenty and they're easy to identify using established laws and technologies (tip: they hang around Jackson Hole), or try to dip net and fillet 300 creek chubs scattered all over the place?

You are right in that it isn't only about the money. It has to be the surveillance aspect with the revenue generation as an added bonus. If something like this doesn't succeed now, then next time will it be for national security or the safety of the children?

We love to enforce the laws against the poor. This just seems like another avenue by which to do so. Look at how frequently crimes like robbery are mentioned in the news-- but what about much more endemic crimes typically perpetuated by the ownership class, like wage theft (https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg), and how little you hear about them.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#34

Post by throwaway0a5e »

vgeek wrote: post #33
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few big fish is nothing compared to a net of every small fish independent contractor, small business and dude with a side gig who doesn't report that income. The cynical take is that it's not about the money, it's about having the power of arbitrary enforcement coupled with the longstanding ability to freeze accounts and seize assets in response to tax evasion. Imagine if the feds has an "off switch" for most small…

Yes, but is it more effective to catch and eat a 10lb trout, of which there are plenty and they're easy to identify using established laws and technologies (tip: they hang around Jackson Hole), or try to dip net and fillet 300 creek chubs scattered all over the place? You are right in that it isn't only about the money. It has to be the surveillance aspect with the revenue generation as an added bonus. If something l…

In this case it's as easy as sending automated threatening letters "we see you've done X Y and Z transactions, we think these are taxable, please provide payment amount A or appeal it by doing B"

The rich people and rich companies (10lb trout in your example, since it may not be clear to everyone that 10lb is no small trout) have big enough dollar amounts at stake to be worth fighting for and will fight but the cost of running that process will be just a formality compared to all the $100-500 checks they'll receive.

I don't think it's about the surveillance aspect or the money except as a means to the end of having more power to control who gets economically marginalized.

Look at the difficulty the government had enforcing executive policy and controlling the narrative during the pandemic (compare with the first few years of the war on terror for example). They don't want to get caught with their pants down the next time around.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#35

Post by salawat »

rmesters wrote: post #19

I wonder how this could work in practice. A Gov entity will have to connect to some bank APIs to streamline the monitoring? Most banks don't have APIs to connect to. It would pretty wild if the Gov had to ask people to share their bank passwords and then had to screen-scrape the data from their accounts to "establish a connection".

Nothing so complicated. Compliance departments just start sending reports of all transactions greater than $600 on a monthly basis just like they do with SAR's and large cash value withdrawals.

I'm having difficulty seeing how this isn't a 4th Amendment violation, or something that'd have to be gated behind a legislative statute.

Make no mistake. The U.S. financial system is one of the greatest "soft power" projectors on the planet. It is most certainly not being utilized in a way that helps you.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#36

Post by thebean11 »

kumarvvr wrote: post #29

This is interesting. With enough computing power, and that is already dead cheap, the potential to spy is enormous. As much as I am a fan of Bitcoin, is it not possible to create an alternative currency, where the value of the currency is pegged to the state currency, but transactions are encrypted and untraceable. Sorr of like an underground banking system.

DAI satisfies that, is is pegged to the dollar by a smart contract that issues loans, expands, and contracts the DAI supply to keep the peg. It is not backed by real dollars*. It's not untraceable, same as Bitcoin, but that's been solved by things like Monero. I bet the two concepts are compatible.

*It is backed by traditional crypto, in addition to USDC and other stablecoins which are in turn backed by real dollars, so it's partially backed by dollars.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#37

Post by sershe »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #10
anovikov wrote: post #9

Result will be like we see in Russia: deals between US businesses will become deals between their offshores, and just enough money to pay salaries, will be moved into the country.

Unlikely. Most American small businesses and individuals can't set up offshore structures willy nilly (it's too expensive and complex), and FACTA makes it a lot harder for them to even if they want to. Lots of financial institutions hate working with Americans and will avoid it if possible in some places because of FACTA. Keeping money offshore doesn't make sense for the little guy. You're required to report it with…

There are companies in Russia that specialize in providing shell companies to businesses. You can get a "reused" local company, an unique one, a company represented by a real person (no idea if that person is literally a fall guy, or just a legal fiction), probably off-shores too. Sounds like this might become a great startup idea in the US too ;)

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#38

Post by rangoon626 »

Its funny that I was discussing the last election with someone who said the old "government moves slow" and "checks and balances."

My response: "not this time."

They looked shocked, but everything that has happened since the transfer looks like an operation warp speed towards authoritarianism.

Re: Treasury Dept. Seeks to Track Transactions of Personal Bank Accounts over $600

#39

Post by thomascgalvin »

vgeek wrote: post #33
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few big fish is nothing compared to a net of every small fish independent contractor, small business and dude with a side gig who doesn't report that income. The cynical take is that it's not about the money, it's about having the power of arbitrary enforcement coupled with the longstanding ability to freeze accounts and seize assets in response to tax evasion. Imagine if the feds has an "off switch" for most small…

Yes, but is it more effective to catch and eat a 10lb trout, of which there are plenty and they're easy to identify using established laws and technologies (tip: they hang around Jackson Hole), or try to dip net and fillet 300 creek chubs scattered all over the place? You are right in that it isn't only about the money. It has to be the surveillance aspect with the revenue generation as an added bonus. If something l…

The IRS has had its ability to go after big fish gutted. They simply don't have the resources to properly audit and prosecute a billionaire.

But Joe the Electrician who does most of his work under the table? That's easy, so that's where they focus.

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