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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#351

Post by ghostwriter »

meibo wrote: post #299
maxwell wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?

Push notifications are impossible on iOS PWAs. Basically takes out a big chunk of possible apps you could build on this, no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message.

> no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message.

I deliberately disable push notifications in all messengers to avoids distractions, even though I'm actively using the messengers _when_ I want to sync with people.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#352

Post by sfg »

srg0 wrote: post #163
sfg wrote: post #151

Do they have a PWA option? Or an ordinary web site? The world needs to get away from closed stores and back to open systems.

Ordinary web sites are quickly blocked and are not accessible without a VPN. Some popular VPN providers are blocked too. The app, once installed, appears to be more resistant to state-level disruption. At least until law enforcement pays a visit to Moscow offices, and then magically Apple and Google side with Putin.

Why isn't it hard to block access to the back-end services that the app communicates with? If it doesn't require back-end services, then why is it more resilient than an offline PWA?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#353

Post by ghostwriter »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #321
simondotau wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for? Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

> Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website? PWA was touted in the comments as a possible alternative, but PWA on iOS is not a very viable alternative to a native app in my view. Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. Most apps I use on a daily basis could technically be…

> Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be.

It's worth mentioning that Navalny's team is funded via donations, and they could poll whether PWA is a viable option for communicating with their audience.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#354

Post by codedokode »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

As I understand, PWAs are easy to block - you just need to block access to a web server. And native apps have more possibilities to evade blocking: they can use non-standard protocols, P2P protocols, receive data via pushes. So to block a native app one would have to block access to App Store.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#355

Post by chupasaurus »

simonh wrote: post #108
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

Even Navalny and his supporters are not calling for foreign companies to all pull out of Russia. What makes you think you know better what is good for the Russian people and the opposition groups than Russians and the opposition groups themselves? How many of Russia's Apple employees think Apple is "participating in dictatorship" by employing them? How many Russian citizens, including the political opposition, do you…

> How many of Russia's Apple employees

I don't think there is any: Apple has never operated in Russia directly and I doubt there are employees working remotely from Russia.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#356

Post by iaml »

SmileIJP wrote: post #109
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #50

It is time to ask Google and Apple if they were asked to actually remove Telegram from stores, when russian government was trying to ban it. It wasn't removed at the time, and all sources that Apple and Google were demanded to block it in Russia pointed to press-release on RosKomNadzor itself. I suspect that it is possible that all this Telegram block in Russia was a PR campaign coordinated with Russian government to…

They might just try different methods. Also Telegram is deeply integrated into Russian infrastructure. Fair amount of the private companies use it as the main communication medium. Government entities use it to communicate the news. Lots of common non-political folks use it. I would bet trade-off of upsetting non-relevant folks to the hit of the unfavorable party doesn't really pay off. Apple and Google may move thei…

>Also Telegram is deeply integrated into Russian infrastructure

I'd argue both apple and google are well-integrated too. A lot of businesses and people depend on them and sometimes in very unexpected places. For example, apparently yandex's own smart speaker uses 8.8.8.8 to test internet connectivity. A lot of services use recaptcha too.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#357

Post by glacia01 »

dilap wrote: post #286
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #272

How is that different from Apple and Google removing apps of Trump supporters and social media companies closing their communication channels? Is it democratic, as opposed to this case, just because companies did it without an official request from the government/courts? Here's comes to mind the old saying: "a King only has to think about something, and others will do it without him even asking. Smaller players will…

Beyond even Trump supporters, Twitter banned Trump himself. (While he was still the democratically-elected president!) Among those alarmed by the move were...Navalny, who described it as "an unacceptable act of censorship". https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1347969772177264644?lang=...

He also publicly supported Biden on last elections. So?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#358

Post by depressedpanda »

judge2020 wrote: post #341
keewee7 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. Apple is the company that is actively sabotaging PWAs.

They work just fine on iOS. Stadia does PWA as well.

No they don't work fine.

The option to install a PWA as an app is quite hidden, compared to Chrome.

They refuse to implement push notifications.

In general, Safari is dragging their feet in supporting any web standards that would allow PWAs to compete with apps installed from the App store, while at the same time being the only browser allowed on iOS.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#359

Post by codedokode »

simondotau wrote: post #303
cageface wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for? Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

Such PWA is easy to block because the government can block a website with it.

A native app can use push notifications (which are encrypted) to receive data and the only way to block such an app would be to block access to Apple's servers completely.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#360

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ghostwriter wrote: post #351
meibo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Push notifications are impossible on iOS PWAs. Basically takes out a big chunk of possible apps you could build on this, no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message.

> no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message. I deliberately disable push notifications in all messengers to avoids distractions, even though I'm actively using the messengers _when_ I want to sync with people.

It's great that works for you.

Other users have other priorities.

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