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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#321

Post by tailspin2019 »

simondotau wrote: post #303
cageface wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for? Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

> Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

PWA was touted in the comments as a possible alternative, but PWA on iOS is not a very viable alternative to a native app in my view.

Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. Most apps I use on a daily basis could technically be websites, but that misses the point of why we like using platform-native apps in the first place.

EDIT: It seems it is also a website. And that's blocked too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#322

Post by ericmay »

fsflover wrote: post #318
ericmay wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn’t they just force other app stores to pull the app too?

Such as F-Droid?

Any reason they can’t just block the site? Is F-Droid a good option for this kind of mobile app?

I guess you can say they wind up playing whack-a-mole with new App Store and websites but that doesn’t seem ideal either. Russians can plant something too.

And Google removed it too. So are users downloading it now from 3rd-party app stores?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#323

Post by tailspin2019 »

pkilgore wrote: post #285
np- wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

Apple's "PWA" support is about as good as Microsoft Office's Apple support in the 90s. I strongly suspect for the same anticompetitive reasons.

Yes it's 100% down to wanting to protect the sanctity of the App Store ecosystem - which I do kind of understand, but don't necessarily condone.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#324

Post by mikro2nd »

Dah00n wrote: post #219
mikro2nd wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's too big of a market Russia's GDP: $1.710 trillion Texas GSP: $1.9 trillion

So Texas is also too big a market?

Just trying to put some context around "big".

FWIW: China GDP $16.64 trillion

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#325

Post by keewee7 »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #272

How is that different from Apple and Google removing apps of Trump supporters and social media companies closing their communication channels? Is it democratic, as opposed to this case, just because companies did it without an official request from the government/courts? Here's comes to mind the old saying: "a King only has to think about something, and others will do it without him even asking. Smaller players will…

>he's a racist

No, he is not.

Navalny was against banning a right-wing group from protesting and exercising their freedom of speech. He explicitly condemned their racism and hatred but said it was wrong to limit their freedom of speech:

>In late 2006, Navalny appealed to the Moscow City Hall, asking it to grant permission to conduct the nationalist 2006 Russian march. However, he added that Yabloko (Navalny's party) condemned "any ethnic or racial hatred and any xenophobia" and called on the police to oppose "any fascist, Nazi, xenophobic manifestations".

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#326

Post by jonathanlydall »

d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #204
kurokikaze wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's voting for the candidate most likely to win against the main party's candidates. The app's purpose is to concentrate protest voters on one candidate without spreading them over all of them.

Could the same thing be accomplished with rank choice voting?

Russia doesn't presently use rank choice voting, so it's not an option for this weekend's election.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#327

Post by tailspin2019 »

tolmasky wrote: post #249
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Allow side-loading so that you don’t leave yourself open to a situation where the only way your customers get access to a voting app is by having your employees jailed. The AppStore creates an easily exploitable bottleneck for governments to take advantage of. The hkmap.live situation during the protests in Hong Kong was similar.

As much as I like a lot of the benefits of the walled garden (from a consumer perspective, not necessarily as a developer), this is actually a very good argument for side-loading and one that I hadn't thought about before.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#328

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

unfortunately, the website from which such PWA might be loaded is also blocked in Russia.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#329

Post by mjreacher »

This was always the logical consequence when big tech companies started listening to various requests from random countries about their own domestic laws. One wonders what would today look like if they only enforced US law and told the other countries to fuck off and block them if it was really that necessary for national security or whatever reason they give.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#330

Post by jonathanlydall »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #91
okamiueru wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, we would sanction countries that did this. Maybe time to sanction companies? Otherwise, why do anyone expect them to do anything other than what is the most profitable? Its even illegal not to.

> Usually, we would sanction countries that did this. Maybe time to sanction companies? Otherwise, why do anyone expect them to do anything other than what is the most profitable? Its even illegal not to. Sanction for what exactly? Sanctions against nations don't work. USA has been sanctioning Cuba, Iran for half a century, no regime change whatsoever, it only hurt the population in these countries. USA are sanctioni…

Not to say I am generally in favour of sanctions, but they did help in South Africa's case.
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