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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#281

Post by jpxw »

gman83 wrote: post #222
hnlmorg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, people have been asking Apple and Google (plus many other western businesses) to pull out of China for a long time. The point your making isn't something new nor overlooked.

But Google did pull out of China, did that improve the situation in China? Meanwhile Apple makes billions in China and barely anyone says anything. If you're Google you're looking at that like a raw deal.

It’s not about whether it improves the situation in China or not. It’s about having consistent principles as a company.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#282

Post by deelly »

oliwarner wrote: post #253
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Except that by this point, all this is expected behaviour. If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties. If they do want to put profit ahead of everything else, then whatever, but you don't get to defend them as doing the right thing for their employees. They're enabling the whole situation. [Edit to bring in a sister question] "Why don't…

* If companies don't want to be complicit in these crimes, they need to extricate themselves from the country and cut all ties.

You live in a quite simple world, no?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#283

Post by maxwell »

cageface wrote: post #264
np- wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

Which features?

getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor.

What else?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#284

Post by heavyset_go »

threeseed wrote: post #34
Hamuko wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CSAM databases are not Apple's own either.

Apple uses databases from 2 or more child safety organisations. Specifically to prevent governments from being able to include entries.

> Specifically to prevent governments from being able to include entries.

Yes, governments and their intelligence agencies famously don't work together and share information[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#285

Post by pkilgore »

np- wrote: post #248
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path) Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

Apple's "PWA" support is about as good as Microsoft Office's Apple support in the 90s. I strongly suspect for the same anticompetitive reasons.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#286

Post by dilap »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #272

How is that different from Apple and Google removing apps of Trump supporters and social media companies closing their communication channels? Is it democratic, as opposed to this case, just because companies did it without an official request from the government/courts? Here's comes to mind the old saying: "a King only has to think about something, and others will do it without him even asking. Smaller players will…

Beyond even Trump supporters, Twitter banned Trump himself. (While he was still the democratically-elected president!)

Among those alarmed by the move were...Navalny, who described it as "an unacceptable act of censorship".

https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1347969772177264644?lang=...

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#287

Post by jsnell »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #84
ALittleLight wrote: post #5

Very sad when not even the massively rich will bother to do the right thing. "Sorry, need a few more billion, so we're going to side with an oppressive regime against Democracy." Reminds me of a Dylan line "Will all the money you made buy back your soul?"

> Very sad when not even the massively rich will bother to do the right thing. This is so bizarre, what did people expect here? Apple has been complying with Chinese communist party demands for decades and who knows what Google did. But when it's the Russian government, it's where people on HN draw the line? These companies certainly want their phones/ecosystem to be sold or used in Russia, they only care about whate…

> and who knows what Google did

We know one thing they did: withdrew from the Chinese market in 2010. Despite it being the second largest economy in the world, and them having an extremely successful search service there.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#288

Post by upofadown »

There is obviously a conflict of interest here, but strategic voting scams are generally harmful to the political process. In particular they tend to concentrate power in the two incumbent parties over time.

You don't need an app for strategic voting. The proponents of the scheme will tell you who to vote for.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#289

Post by simondotau »

fsflover wrote: post #185
simonh wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Navalny and his supporters are not calling for foreign companies to all pull out of Russia. What makes you think you know better what is good for the Russian people and the opposition groups than Russians and the opposition groups themselves? How many of Russia's Apple employees think Apple is "participating in dictatorship" by employing them? How many Russian citizens, including the political opposition, do you…

The actual problem is not that Apple removed the app. It's that there is no other way to install the app if Apple removes it from their store.

I can't imagine how such an app could be in any way complicated. Why is it not just a website?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#290

Post by avianlyric »

dilap wrote: post #278
Mordisquitos wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. I understand your trepidation in saying it. That is simply a fact of reality as it stands and how businesses operate under the current incentives, not a value judgement. However, it makes me think that liberal democracies should play hardball. The USA already ha…

I don't think liberal democracies care about these freedoms, other than as a rhetorical stick to hit countries that "illiberal" with. E.g. imprisonment of Julian Assange, removal of Trump from twitter, Atlantic Council as official part of FB content moderation team (w/ the probably-not-coincidental) subsequent removal of pro-Venezuela and far left groups. (Plus also IMO being banned from FB and Twitter are materially…

Democratic leaders will care about it if it earns them votes at the polls.

But I agree that the government's themselves don't give a rats arse about this stuff, as long as they can keep winning elections.

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