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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#241

Post by clusterfish »

wwtrv wrote: post #203
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Arbitrary imprisoning or harming the employees of Google or Apple would likely result in many other western IT firms closing their offices and leaving, that would be a very stupid thing to do for the Russian government. So I don’t think such threats could have been real (but I guess you can’t really count on authoritarian regimes not doing something completely irrational).

Russiam government needs to shut up Navalny a lot more than they need western IT companies. Successful multinationals know when to blink.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#242

Post by hnlmorg »

gman83 wrote: post #222
hnlmorg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, people have been asking Apple and Google (plus many other western businesses) to pull out of China for a long time. The point your making isn't something new nor overlooked.

But Google did pull out of China, did that improve the situation in China? Meanwhile Apple makes billions in China and barely anyone says anything. If you're Google you're looking at that like a raw deal.

Google didn't entirely pull out of China, they just terminated their product lines that were unsuccessful in China.

I was also just posting a fact that people have made the same calls for China, not my personal opinion about whether we "should" discontinue services with China. On that last point, I'm honestly undecided.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#243

Post by nicce »

reissbaker wrote: post #65
nicce wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should start realisizing that they don’t have much control over for their iPhones, never hard. User interfaces are just an illusion. Reversing their black box code is too much work in real time. We have always had to trust Apple and their word on what they do. There isn’t evidence that they have broken the trust yet, so what gives reason for even more speculation than before?

This article is evidence that Apple has and is continuously willing to bend to demands in dictatorships... That's why people are talking about it here. Heck, even in democracies it's willing to bend. It's been widely reported that the reason iCloud backups aren't encrypted is to make it easier for the FBI to surveil them, despite there being no American laws forbidding Apple from encrypting the backups.

> This article is evidence that Apple has and is continuously willing to bend to demands in dictatorships... That's why people are talking about it here.

But this has happened for years already with similar ways. What has changed to make this big news? They have blocked many apps in the U.S as well, but it seems to be fine when for the majority it is OK. For example idea of withdrawal of the TikTok was fine for the most, while it was only for political reasons. People pick sides when it is the most suitable for them.

> It's been widely reported that the reason iCloud backups aren't encrypted is to make it easier for the FBI to surveil them, despite there being no American laws forbidding Apple from encrypting the backups.

And yet, Apple made a way to make encrypting possible while avoiding liabilities, and people made their best to not allow that happen. Such an irony. (Looking at CSAM feature. People seems to still ignore the fact, that it changes from server-side encryption into partial E2EE + server side encryption, tooking a way powerful arguments from FBI to not enable encryption on backups)

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#245

Post by mrtksn »

boudin wrote: post #232
mrtksn wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Apple said that they will go vigilante to serve their customers? It's kind of obvious that any claim they make is implied to be within the limits of the government. Like every other legal company ever. There were no cannabis Apps in the US App Store up until the US decided to allow it. Were the users wronged by Apple when it was illegal?

No it is not that obvious and that's my whole point. The real goal of their app store is not user convenience, security or safety, it's to be able to fully control what the user can and cannot do. They created the perfect environment to enforce this kind of decision, because that's what their real goal is, this kind of news shows it. They need to remove all freedom from their users, to feel safe as a business in any…

I think it's obvious. You can tell that by Apple not being a criminal organisation.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#246

Post by joconde »

wwtrv wrote: post #221
joconde wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Google employees would start getting arrested, and whatever would be left of Google in the country would comply anyway, achieving nothing but the imprisonment of more people. Google Russia's employees don't have diplomatic immunity.

How long would other western companies continue doing business in Russia if that started happening?

The most profitable choice for them is to stay in Russia and obey the government. They have no reason to leave or risk getting the same treatment as Google by disobeying.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#248

Post by np- »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #195

It is important to note, that in Apple's case the problem is made worse by the fact that on iOS there are no ways to install the app bypassing the appstore. That makes Apple's cooperation with dictators and authocrats so much worse for their users. You know, the people Apple claims to care about and 'protect'.

To be pedantic, Apple does allow Progressive Web Apps which can bypass the App Store. (The Xbox cloud gaming app is a big one that goes down this path)

Note that I don’t support at all this decision to cooperate with an autocrat.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#249

Post by tolmasky »

viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Allow side-loading so that you don’t leave yourself open to a situation where the only way your customers get access to a voting app is by having your employees jailed. The AppStore creates an easily exploitable bottleneck for governments to take advantage of. The hkmap.live situation during the protests in Hong Kong was similar.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#250

Post by QuarterReptile »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #116
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

> Pull out of the countries then. Then why Apple hasn't pulled out of China? Like 2 decades ago? China was always a brutal dictatorship. Why would they pull out of anything? These company profit from bloody dictatorships, like the rest of the western economy. But somehow when it's about Russia it's a problem? The hypocrisy in the west must stop. The west and it's industry never stood for freedom abroad since it decid…

>Tell that to Apple in China, a country that is literally using slave workforce from concentration camps.

Source?

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