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Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

reuters.com

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Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#211

Post by kwere »

avianlyric wrote: post #71
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they ever explained why the csam would be implemented? Apple bends just fine if the government is powerful enough and the marketplace is big enough, see China.

In their defence (I say this with some trepidation), if they want to see their products in another country, then they need to play by that countries rules. Regardless of how we in the west feel about those rules. If a Chinese company came to the US or EU and ignored US or EU rules and lawful directives from government, we would quite rightly be up in arms about that. With regards to CSAM, I think the same applies. Af…

everybody can use "i was only following orders" as defense in court

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#212

Post by Dah00n »

Klaster_1 wrote: post #9

Previously, Google usually ignored such requests, but seems to have finally gave in. If they are willing to remove the app, what's next, disclosing personal information to help the regime with repressions, preventing access from Russia to other Google resources, removing YouTube videos? The "we comply with local laws" clause effectively puts citizens of opperssive regime at a disadvantage. It's not like I had an impr…

>If they are willing to remove the app, what's next, disclosing personal information

Both Apple and Google share all requested information in the US, so why is this any different? If Apple or Google should "do better" the change need to be made in the US at first. Pointing fingers while down in the mud doesn't really do any good.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#213

Post by fsflover »

Grustaf wrote: post #141
martin_a wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't stop there! What about terrorists, drug dealers and the organized crime?! We need to stop those, too!

We are already trying to stop those, so that's some weird sarcasm. But scanning photos is not a very efficient way to stop drug dealers, they don't tend to take photos of their stash I think.

It's not a weird sarcasm, it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp....

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#214

Post by [deleted] »

baybal2 wrote: post #198
simonh wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collapsing economies simply make autocrats double down even harder on autocracy. North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Zimbabwe. There are numerous examples of this. It simply multiplies the misery.

Why is this even relevant? You always have to keep heads of your enemies down. That's basic common sense. Dictatorships are the enemies of the Free World. Or, do you think they are friends, perhaps? They are your enemies, and you keep their economies ruined.

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#215

Post by nicce »

foerbert wrote: post #66
nicce wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple struck a deal with the government that will show users a prompt when first configuring a device in Russia to pre-install apps from a list of government-approved software. Users will have the ability to decline the installation of certain apps. Apps you can decline? And uninstall? We are talking about quite different things here. Not to mention every Android with pre-installed bloatware.

I mean, there's some big questions left out there. It says 'certain' apps. Is it all? Or just some? If you do opt-out, does anybody get notified? Is it reasonable users are concerned somebody might get notified? There's a lot going on there. And just to point out, this has moved on from saying Apple only removing features, to debating how bad the features they've added are.

It is very uncertain, who has added the word "certain", as quoted statement is just talking about offering:

> users will be offered a choice of applications from Russian developers, which they will be able to choose for further installation on their iPhone or iPad

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#216

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Here is an article that mentions the threat of jailing employees: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/09/17/apple-google-delet...

It's all about Navalny's tactic of 'smart voting', where they are picking candidates from parties other than the 'United Russia' party of Putin, in an attempt to bring in members of parliament who would not be in exact alignment with the politics of Putin. These candidates are often not even in open opposition to Putin, and that is currently the worst opposition and nightmare of the Russian government...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Voting

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#217

Post by wwtrv »

machomaster wrote: post #170
throw_m239339 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually, we would sanction countries that did this. Maybe time to sanction companies? Otherwise, why do anyone expect them to do anything other than what is the most profitable? Its even illegal not to. Sanction for what exactly? Sanctions against nations don't work. USA has been sanctioning Cuba, Iran for half a century, no regime change whatsoever, it only hurt the population in these countries. USA are sanctioni…

I agree with you that sanctions against countries don't work. But then the next logical step is to propose the action that actually works: sanctions against individuals. Perhaps that's what should be done - sanctions against individual decision-makers at Google and Apple?..

The US government allows Google to operate in Russia (unlike Iran for example). So how can it arbitrarily ’sanction’ employees for complying with the laws of a country their company operates in. Do that sound fair to you? It wouldn’t make any sense.

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#218

Post by r721 »

wwtrv wrote: post #203
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Arbitrary imprisoning or harming the employees of Google or Apple would likely result in many other western IT firms closing their offices and leaving, that would be a very stupid thing to do for the Russian government. So I don’t think such threats could have been real (but I guess you can’t really count on authoritarian regimes not doing something completely irrational).

NYT and Bloomberg report that threats were real: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28563916

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#219

Post by Dah00n »

mikro2nd wrote: post #136
mithron wrote: post #41

China's too big of a market - companies have to comply with local authoritarian regime demands. Russia's too big of a market - companies have to comply with local authoritarian regime demands. It really helps that North Korea and Afghanistan are dirt poor.

Russia's too big of a market Russia's GDP: $1.710 trillion Texas GSP: $1.9 trillion

So Texas is also too big a market?

Re: Google, Apple remove Navalny app from stores as Russian elections begin

#220

Post by lotusmars »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #88
viktorcode wrote: post #85

Reuters doesn't report this, but the government officials threatened the companies (Apple and Google) with jail time for their employees yesterday. After that the companies finally conceded. There's a short video fragment from the meeting of the government officials and the companies representatives. It's worth watching, especially if you come from a democratic nation. Letting your Russian employees be persecuted don…

Pull out of the countries then. Participating in dictatorship is barely better than refusing to do so if that dictatorship will falsely imprison your employees.

As a Russian, I agree. Boycott Putin, Lukashenko and other bloody murderers. Otherwise it's just talk.

You can post whataboutism under this comment (e.g. "what about China?", "US is bloody too", "US always supports dictators" and other useful idiot[0] stuff).

0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

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