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Windows 11: Just say no

computerworld.com

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Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#421

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mycall wrote: post #318
pjmlp wrote: post #7

I have to agree, even though I have plenty of pro-Windows comments. To me Windows 11 feels like Vista, and to everyone that got burned with the rewrites on the WinRT side, just using plain Win32/MFC/Forms/WPF feels liberating. Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is…

I think MAUI Blazor App + Blazor Website + shared libs is the way to go.

Until they decide to change strategy again in two years time at which point the existing stuff will be abandoned in a half finished state.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#422

Post by midasz »

krona wrote: post #146
jason0597 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the Linux desktop experience has come so far in the past 10 years. Sure I don't think it's perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was in 2008 where Windows was still king and Linux had bugs everywhere in every distro and every desktop environment. I think people should seriously consider Linux now if they can't take anymore of Microsoft's shit

Anecdotal, but I have a 2015 Lenovo X1 Carbon running Ubuntu 20 (gnome 3.38), a 2020 MBP and a 2019 MS Surface Laptop 3 (windows 10). The recent Gnome experience on hardware half a decade older than the Surface laptop is so much snappier than Windows. I dred MacOS and Windows updates these days but I'm generally very pleased with updates to Ubuntu/Gnome. Furthermore everything just works, too, which is what I grew up…

I've got a Lenovo x1 xtreme and I dual boot Windows 10 + Arch. I haven't used Windows in so long, the last time I tried it was so insanely slow I don't know how people deal with it. Arch with GNOME is super snappy.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#423

Post by rossmohax »

brynjolf wrote: post #299
rossmohax wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct Storage?

Direct storage is coming to Windows 10 but apparently there will be a performance difference, still unknown as it isn't released at all

I am pretty sure Windows 10 will provide API, which is then implemented using existing kernel facilities with no perf gains, whilst Windows 11 kernel will have new subsystems for performance boost. Pure speculation, something like multi queue block layer (similar to blk-mq in Linux) or new IO subsystem (similar to io_uring , to replace dated IOCP) might be an option.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#424

Post by tonyedgecombe »

oxipital wrote: post #249

The amount of kvetching and unneeded stress over what is basically a UI overhaul is astounding. If your computer doesn’t run it then it’s moot. If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install. But neither case requires the amount of wahh that were seeing.

>If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install.

That won't be an option for the majority, it will install automatically as long as your hardware supports it.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#425

Post by meijer »

pjmlp wrote: post #7

I have to agree, even though I have plenty of pro-Windows comments. To me Windows 11 feels like Vista, and to everyone that got burned with the rewrites on the WinRT side, just using plain Win32/MFC/Forms/WPF feels liberating. Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is…

I hope we will be able to wait for Windows 12.

It's possible that MS will just force-update everyone to Windows 11.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#426

Post by mikro2nd »

a-dub wrote: post #396
Someone1234 wrote: post #21

Windows 11 is half-baked. But it isn't just half-baked because it was rushed out while ignoring all the feedback (although it absolutely was). It is also half-baked because Microsoft's management has no particular strategy or plan for what they want Windows to be. So Windows 11 just feels like an "and kitchen sink" where someone picked up an iPad, noted down a bunch of random features without rhyme or reason and then…

> Regardless of what that vision is, at least then Windows would be a something, rather than a whole host of competing ideas and contradictions i.e. a mess. the big problem is, and this is primarily why i dislike everything windows, is that humans are mimicry machines. if you give them tooling that's an inconsistent mess, it's going to normalize the idea of inconsistent messes, and then they will create inconsistent…

Well said! I've long maintained that Visual Basic set back the state-of-the-art in graphical user interfaces by (at least) a decade. The original intent and purpose of graphical UIs was direct manipulation of objects on screen. VB turned it into "filling in forms with buttons to click". And that mediocrity lives with us still, the original promise/premise sadly unfulfilled.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#427

Post by pjmlp »

baxuz wrote: post #419
pjmlp wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React Native != React. Also do you consider that VSCode has higher performance requirements than XBox dashboard, or Office plugins?

It's still React, and it's still too slow. The only difference is where the render is committed to (DOM vs Native UI) Having a declarative rendering logic, a rendering runtime, the VDOM, diffing, re-rendering, update scheduling and everything else that React uses under the hood is always going to be slower than tailor-made imperative rendering. And let's not even go down the rabbit hole which is concurrent mode and s…

Ah, that is why Teams dropped Electron for React Native!

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#428

Post by pjmlp »

int_19h wrote: post #275
pjmlp wrote: post #7

I have to agree, even though I have plenty of pro-Windows comments. To me Windows 11 feels like Vista, and to everyone that got burned with the rewrites on the WinRT side, just using plain Win32/MFC/Forms/WPF feels liberating. Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is…

The UI war predates WinRT - remember Silverlight? Or, for that matter, WPF itself. So why would you expect it to be over?

Silverlight was a response to Flash, and WPF was Forms replacement out of Longhorn's UI.

They had quite clear goals.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#430

Post by Synaesthesia »

The commentary here reminds me a lot of the comments around Windows 10 as it was at a similar stage. And not without merit! Windows 10 did have many issues in the early stages, but got progressively better with updates.
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