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Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

typography.com

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Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#21

Post by flixic »

jonas21 wrote: post #14
pupdroid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is almost seven years old. These guys settled their dispute and moved on. Frere Jones now has a very successful type company of his own. He's not exactly living in a van by the river

Have they really put it behind them? Hoefler doesn't so much as acknowledge Frere-Jones in his post. And one of Frere-Jones' type designers had this to say about the whole thing: https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/14382710868446822...

Can’t agree more with this tweet. It was amazing fonts directed by Frere-Jones that created almost all the value for H&F-J.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#22

Post by OskarS »

flixic wrote: post #21
jonas21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they really put it behind them? Hoefler doesn't so much as acknowledge Frere-Jones in his post. And one of Frere-Jones' type designers had this to say about the whole thing: https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/14382710868446822...

Can’t agree more with this tweet. It was amazing fonts directed by Frere-Jones that created almost all the value for H&F-J.

I’m FJ’s side in this whole saga, but you’re minimizing Jonathan Hoefler’s contributions a bit: it’s true that Frere-Jones made Gotham, but Hoefler has made many iconic typefaces as well. Hoefler Text, obviously, but my favorite is probably Champion Gothic (think “Straight Outta Compton”).

It’s not Wozniak/Jobs situation where one of them was a creative genius and the other a cold-blooded businessman: they’re both creative geniuses. One of them just screwed the other one over.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#23

Post by RicoElectrico »

intellix wrote: post #12

Once worked on a website where they declared paying $10k/yr for a Helvetica licence was necessary and they didn't want to use a free alternative. It's something that still perplexes me to this day...

The more you think about it, the more you realize "top" designers are a cirlejerk. They also think they're some messiah on a mission save the world.

At the same time regular people in the industry get screwed over and are paid peanuts.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#24

Post by jeremyw »

tptacek wrote: post #15
jeremyw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a sad affair. Interviews and documentaries clearly demonstrating their relationship as partners, without a hierarchy. Then one baldly asserts his ownership rights, and the other realizes the naive trust he'd put in his colleague was vapor.

Doesn't square with the chronology below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28560980

How so? Frere-Jones comes later, but becomes vital to the new state of the business. 15 years together!

See 37signals for another such example: design studio, but oh, software is where we shine, but I need this tech fellow as full partner.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#26

Post by cthalupa »

tptacek wrote: post #15
jeremyw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a sad affair. Interviews and documentaries clearly demonstrating their relationship as partners, without a hierarchy. Then one baldly asserts his ownership rights, and the other realizes the naive trust he'd put in his colleague was vapor.

Doesn't square with the chronology below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28560980

The chronology doesn't really tell the full story. Hoefler made some stand out typefaces, but many of the commercial successes and culturally iconic fonts were designed by Frere-Jones by himself or in partnership with Hoefler. Gotham is the biggest example, but Whitney, Surveyor, Archer, Vitesse and others were either FJ or collaboration work.

It's quite fair to say that Hoefler would not be in the position he is today without Frere-Jones, and by many accounts, and even how Hoefler presented things in the press, they were a partnership. Even before they started officially working together, Hoefler was consulting Frere-Jones on ideas, such as on Knockout - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/arts/11iht-design11.html

It's not like Hoefler's foundry was a juggernaut when Frere-Jones began contributing to his work, or even when he joined the company. They had several success stories - but so did FJ prior to that - and both of their largest successes all came when they were working together.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#27

Post by vitejose »

blakewatson wrote: post #13

I can't help but worry about Hoefler&Co's subscription service, cloud.typography. Monotype use to offer an affordable subscription called the Monotype Library Subscription. I still have it since, fortunately, they continue to provide the service to those who had signed up. But they no longer offer new sign-ups. cloud.typography is affordable for personal/solo developer use ($99/year). The cheapest Monotype subscripti…

The Monotype Library Subscription was awesome! I've been stubbornly holding onto my subscription but I'm starting to worry I might have to cancel it since finances are a bit tight for me at the moment. What a shame they stopped offering it. My only complaint was that the anti-piracy functionality in the SkyFonts program meant I couldn't get the fonts to work with TeX.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#28

Post by tempodox »

vmception wrote: post #20
ineedasername wrote: post #17

It's fascinating (in a good way) to me that typographers are still around. On the surface, apart from IP licenses, it doesn't seem necessary, with perhaps the exception of marketing & advertising where a unique design is desired. Yet when you peek under the hood, typography is a lot more than just typefaces, and often goes to the heart of readability and accessibility. A graphic designer might design the text for a l…

Its honestly a wonder that we - as humans - even recognize so many variations of our own letters and symbols such that we don't really notice the nuance of typography until particulars are pointed out to us

In my view, the best craft/design facilitates easy access to content or functionality without us even noticing its presence. It “just works”, unobtrusively. Typography had centuries to figure this out.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#29

Post by dondawest »

cantrecall18169 wrote: post #6
spoonjim wrote: post #3

So Hoefler makes out like a bandit while Frere-Jones gets totally shafted. Business as usual.

Confused. Monotype is PE-owned. Buying companies on the cheap and selling is classic PE logic. Monotype annual revenues were less than 1/10th the acquisition cost. Hoefler&Co had 5 employees and gross revenue was just over 625. Even if they sold for 10 times revenue, that's only $6M for 32 years of work. Purportedly: 1. Hoefler started the company in 1989. 2. After 10 years, in 1999, Frere-Jones joined—as an employee…

You’re missing key information on (2.)

Frere-Jones DID put up capital… intellectual capital. He transferred the rights to famous typefaces he had designed, including Whitney, to the company with the understanding that he would be full partner.

Hoefler shafted F-J so hard it’s unbelievable. The foundry’s reputation was built on Gotham which F-J designed. There’s no other way to see it.

Re: Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

#30

Post by [deleted] »

bww wrote: post #5

Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...

[deleted]
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