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Windows 11: Just say no

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Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#301

Post by Brave-Steak »

jcranberry wrote: post #47

Ive been using win 11 on my laptop for a couple months now. I like the new UI, it feels simpler and less gaudy. The drop down menu expansion thing is fine. I also prefer the redesign of the settings app. I find casting my screen and bluetooth works better. Windows has been missing something decent window snapping features forever and although it's a bit clunky I appreciate that it's there. The only thing that has ann…

My biggest annoyance is that they've removed the ability to open the task manager by right-clicking the taskbar. Instead, I have to right-click the Windows icon in the bottom left. Just ... why? What benefit is there to not letting me right-click anywhere on the bottom part of my screen? Do none of these muppets even use Windows?

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#302

Post by n8cpdx »

pjmlp wrote: post #71
GnarfGnarf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I migrated from Win32 to Qt two years ago. Never looked back. Much easier to program dialogs & UI. Qt gives you macOS as well. ( And UWP if you insist). WinRT is the OS/2 of the 21st century.

WinRT looked great, finally .NET being like Delphi and a C++ stack that looked like C++ Builder, for those moments that .NET alone won't do it. On one side .NET Native is left to stagnate in C# 7, and C++/CX got replaced with C++/WinRT, which to this day (4 years later) still doesn't offer any kind of IDL tooling on VS (lets forget for a second that IDL exists since OLE 1.0), and requires manually merging generated f…

I think there's a degree of denial. I remember walking up to an engineer on the WinUI team at Build (can't remember if 2018 or 2019) and they were _shocked_ that I had complaints about UWP. They seemed to think it was a revelation. It was honestly offensive how out of touch she was. I think at least the PMs on that team do not understand the human suffering they cause by releasing such a bad product.

Anyway, after a particularly awful project involving UWP and Forms UWP, I'm taking my vacation days and using them to learn Typescript, React, and Electron.

Edit: if you find yourself working at Microsoft on the WinUI or UWP teams, quitting is an option. There are many good products that could use your skills and programmer labor is in high demand.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#303

Post by luxuryballs »

> Why would the company do this? Doesn’t it know it’s going to tick off some of their most loyal users who want an early jump at Windows 11 when those users discover — surprise! — they can't run Windows 11 after all? That makes no sense.

…

It makes a ton of sense if you are trying to quickly fix all the shit that isn’t working that you don’t know about. Plus you will have certain users actually helping you figure it out.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#304

Post by mark-r »

II2II wrote: post #157
mypalmike wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dream job: full time engineer on Windows Calculator team.

Developing a calculator that one could be proud of would be a pretty sweet job. By that I mean producing a product that consistently produced correct results, offered useful features, and had a user interface that is more pleasant to use than a four function calculator.

I just use Python as my desktop calculator, it works pretty well.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#305

Post by n8cpdx »

gruez wrote: post #269
phone8675309 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I buy a single license for personal use of LTSC?

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst...

Imagine going so far out of your way to buy software from a vendor that clearly has so much disdain for it's users. Gross.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#306

Post by aaron695 »

Are we still doing this childish we hate Windows crap?

I get the baby idea in the early 2000, but hasn't the internet grow up past this yet?

Yes, unless it's your job or you enjoy early adoption (which many people do) then you should wait on the curve before upgrading, as you should all technology. Very true in corporate.

But tis Windows version, like all Windows updates will improve many things.

Windows Vista was pretty amazing. It was also hated. Some of the hate was unavoidable, like making security better. But some wasn't and that was a IT PR failure, which matters. But all previous evidence point to the fact Windows 11 will be good.

Was Windows Vista THAT bad? Linus Tech Tips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgRryt2ZtE

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#307

Post by tailspin2019 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #285
cogman10 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me nuts. Why do they keep messing with the UI? Nobody wants that! Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. What I, and probably non-power users want out of windows is for it to be faster and use less power. I'd honestly be happy to go back to a Win95 interface with the latest kernel. Microsoft needs to fi…

> Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. ...are we talking about the same Apple and Google? Big Sur? Material You? Sure, maybe it’s not “every” release, but only because they have a faster release cadence than Windows.

I don’t know about Google but I would say that the majority of Apple’s design refreshes are iterative in such a way that someone coming from the previous release is very unlikely to get “lost” when presented with the latest UI.

And this is the key. UI refreshes are fine as long as they don’t add unnecessary friction to the user experience.

Apple’s refreshes are also generally complete, cohesive and coherent. Yes they have the odd inconsistency here and there but largely the design system feels fully thought out at a high level. (I would perhaps put built-in apps like Podcasts and Music to one side here as I have far less charitable opinions around some of those UI updates - I’m mainly talking about the core OS experience).

I’m an experienced user of macOS and Windows and I cannot remember the last time I upgraded a macOS version and couldn’t just immediately carry on with my work without any major reorientation needed. Likewise with iOS. And Apple is iterating on their UI at a much faster pace than Microsoft.

And yet I have Windows VMs and Servers that I’ve used for years now and I still cannot fathom where they have moved setting X because it’s literally all over the place. Their UI updates are mostly incoherent, incomplete and just plain baffling.

The hash they’ve made of settings is just incredible. I have no idea how normal users navigate that crap. Even if you can stay in the top-level “dumbed down” layer of the settings UI it’s completely unintuitive in many places.

I’ve not seen an improvement to the start menu that has benefited my usability in any way since Windows 2000. I’m constantly confused with the various different start menus across servers running different Windows versions. Contrast that to the dock in macOS which has basically been the same simple and usable design paradigm for over 20 years with gentle refinement over that time. The only consistent thing Microsoft seem to keep doing to the start menu is they make more space for ads. FFS.

I’m not even going to get into the aggressive, seemingly-can’t-be-stopped forced updates…

I’m bullish on Microsoft’s .NET developer ecosystem and mainly positive about their Cloud strategy - the company has made some impressive changes over the last decade, but my god, Windows is a total car crash at the moment.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#308

Post by marcosdumay »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #285
cogman10 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what drives me nuts. Why do they keep messing with the UI? Nobody wants that! Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. What I, and probably non-power users want out of windows is for it to be faster and use less power. I'd honestly be happy to go back to a Win95 interface with the latest kernel. Microsoft needs to fi…

> Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. ...are we talking about the same Apple and Google? Big Sur? Material You? Sure, maybe it’s not “every” release, but only because they have a faster release cadence than Windows.

Those have been a relatively long time ago. Both of them stopped doing that. If it's a temporary stop or a definitive one, is an open question, but they did stop (at least for a while).

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#309

Post by Wowfunhappy »

marcosdumay wrote: post #308
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Apple and Google have both figured out that screwing around with UX every release is a recipe for making your customers HATE you. ...are we talking about the same Apple and Google? Big Sur? Material You? Sure, maybe it’s not “every” release, but only because they have a faster release cadence than Windows.

Those have been a relatively long time ago. Both of them stopped doing that. If it's a temporary stop or a definitive one, is an open question, but they did stop (at least for a while).

Big Sur came out in 2020 and Material You was announced in May of this year.

Re: Windows 11: Just say no

#310

Post by kyrra »

tacker2000 wrote: post #106
EMM_386 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is pushing Blazor everywhere including on Web Widgets. Great point. As a developer in the Windows sphere for decades, I'm used to change. However, at this point I have no idea what I am supposed to be developing user interfaces…

Yea vscode is really great! Could someone knowledgeable give a rundown of the exact stack/frameworks/etc they are using?

I can't remember where I saw the post, but the reason it's such a fast product is that they put a large amount of time into performance analysis and fixing those issues.

So it's not so much the stack as the pure engineering time.

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