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Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

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Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#81

Post by bugsy »

thomasgerbe wrote: post #74
bradly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Last year I interviewed at two YC companies, AirBnB and Heroku. At AirBnB the interview went great, but then I was given a 3 hour programming challenge that including a written analysis of my code. The challenge was not at all related at all to building web apps, and even the use of a database was not allowed to be used to solve the problem. At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and h…

"At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and halfway through the interview we were both up at the whiteboard bouncing things back and forth, drawing things up. At the end of the Heroku interview we both knew how the other worked and how we would work together." I find this kind of odd and correct me if you think I'm off because I'm not a programmer. But for any company to give you a problem that they ar…

Thomas, yes, what you mention is a problem. I have had quite a few job interviews that were free consultations. It's real painful when you have to fly out on your own dime for this, something I no longer will do at all. If the company can't afford to cover interview costs, it's not profitable and should be avoided. The experience the other guy described of it working out in the end does happen sometimes but it is a minority of cases. A lot of companies will contact domain experts and consultants and want them to come out for a chat. Sometimes they want to talk on the phone for 6 hrs. It's a huge red flag when they pull out specific problems that they are having trouble with and which are for their company, and start asking for a detailed technical analysis of how to solve it. Especially if they take written notes or video tape the interview. Usually what happens is their guy later implements the solution you give them.

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#84

Post by bradly »

thomasgerbe wrote: post #74
bradly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Last year I interviewed at two YC companies, AirBnB and Heroku. At AirBnB the interview went great, but then I was given a 3 hour programming challenge that including a written analysis of my code. The challenge was not at all related at all to building web apps, and even the use of a database was not allowed to be used to solve the problem. At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and h…

"At Heroku, we discussed a real issue they were having and halfway through the interview we were both up at the whiteboard bouncing things back and forth, drawing things up. At the end of the Heroku interview we both knew how the other worked and how we would work together." I find this kind of odd and correct me if you think I'm off because I'm not a programmer. But for any company to give you a problem that they ar…

It was actually a problem that they were already in the process of fixing, so they weren't gaining any value from my ideas. It turned out my solution a came up with was the same solution they were implementing. I definitely didn't feel like I was doing free work for them. It was pretty high level.

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#85

Post by abhishektwr »

bugsy wrote: post #43

A computer program automatically torturing applicants with endless puzzle tests is not a way to find talented qualified people with experience delivering working results that delight the user. It's a good way to find people that have a lot of free time to play games because they are unemployed. In the years following my first job out of school (decades ago) I can't recall any work that I have gotten by going to these…

I could not agree more. I think initial product was developed with focus on Indian IT market where filtering right candidates is big pain. Hereafter whatever I am saying applies to India. In India For 10 jobs you might get 1000-2000 applications, and you can not interview them all, scanning all those CVs is just impossible. This kind of system can work when you are dealing with large number of raw talent. But then chances are majority of candidates are just good for solving puzzles as they prepare months and months just solving sample puzzles. Plus so many exploitable loopholes as you suggested. Regarding complementary businesses, that's already there. As matter of fact there are large number of institutes to help anyone to crack each and every aspect of IT job interview. End results, I often meet people with 5-10 years of experience who can not write a functional block of code without ctrl-c+v which makes me feel sad.

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#86

Post by psykotic »

almightygod wrote: post #64

I have so much open source to demonstrate my ability, I promise you I'll never use this site or complete any code exercise for an interview. If you don't want to look at my github profile, fine, I don't want to work at your company I also happen to hire and if the candidate does not have an open source project I give them a meaningful challenge (add value to the community) and tell them to create a github acct and sh…

You are insulted by the idea of programming puzzles in an interview situation. That's fair enough by me. But then you go on to say this:

> I also happen to hire and if the candidate does not have an open source project I give them a meaningful challenge (add value to the community) and tell them to create a github acct and share a link to the repo. At least by the end of the process they have something to walk away with

Could you be any more silly and condescending? Right back at you: Unless your nickname is a literal and accurate description of your programming abilities, I will take a bet of dollars to donuts that every programmer in my office has more raw coding acumen than you. But guess what? None of them has a GitHub account and that is unlikely to change. Neither do most of the other top-tier programmers I know. One of my coworkers has put out numerous public domain libraries (http://nothings.org), most of them developed on RAD's dime, but he'd probably be appalled to be considered a member of your "community".

I actually have an old, effectively defunct GitHub account that I continue paying $8/month for because I like what those guys are doing. The problem isn't GitHub. GitHub is great. The problem is you, and people like you.

Don't be a GitHub Douche.

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#87

Post by almightygod »

psykotic wrote: post #86
almightygod wrote: post #64

I have so much open source to demonstrate my ability, I promise you I'll never use this site or complete any code exercise for an interview. If you don't want to look at my github profile, fine, I don't want to work at your company I also happen to hire and if the candidate does not have an open source project I give them a meaningful challenge (add value to the community) and tell them to create a github acct and sh…

You are insulted by the idea of programming puzzles in an interview situation. That's fair enough by me. But then you go on to say this: > I also happen to hire and if the candidate does not have an open source project I give them a meaningful challenge (add value to the community) and tell them to create a github acct and share a link to the repo. At least by the end of the process they have something to walk away w…

First off, I don't understand where your rage is coming from. My point is that if you contribute to open source then your coding ability is clearly demonstrated in those projects. I'd rather spend my mental powers on coding something that others could use afterwards then a stupid code challenge that will just be rm -rf after the interviewer reviews it.

None of them has a GitHub account and that is unlikely to change

I'm surprised your so proud that your team will never have a free account on the largest repository of open source. Regardless if you contribute, why wouldn't you take advantage of FOSS instead of re-creating the wheel.

I will take a bet of dollars to donuts that every programmer in my office has more raw coding acumen than you

Thats a rather baseless statement. What would you know about my ability to code or not to code. On the other hand, your team's apparent anti-open-source position (based on above comment) seems to indicate they are not as awesome as you describe.

The problem is you, and people like you

You mean people that are passionate enough about programming to voluntarily write code on evenings and weekend and share it for the broader community of developers for the sole purpose of being proud of something you create and sharing it so others can benefit? I'd be happy if there were more problems like me

dont be a github douce

Honestly I don't care if you use github, bitbucket, codeplex, or your blog

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#88

Post by psykotic »

almightygod wrote: post #87
psykotic wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are insulted by the idea of programming puzzles in an interview situation. That's fair enough by me. But then you go on to say this: > I also happen to hire and if the candidate does not have an open source project I give them a meaningful challenge (add value to the community) and tell them to create a github acct and share a link to the repo. At least by the end of the process they have something to walk away w…

First off, I don't understand where your rage is coming from. My point is that if you contribute to open source then your coding ability is clearly demonstrated in those projects. I'd rather spend my mental powers on coding something that others could use afterwards then a stupid code challenge that will just be rm -rf after the interviewer reviews it. None of them has a GitHub account and that is unlikely to change…

You think I'm enraged? I'm sitting here chuckling and shaking my head in bemusement at you.

> I'm surprised your so proud that your team will never have a free account on the largest repository of open source.

I'm not proud of it. When I say it's unlikely to change, I'm making a considered prediction. Don't confuse 'is' and ought'.

> Thats a rather baseless statement. What would you know about my ability to code or not to code.

It's not baseless. It's Bayesian statistics. They are enough sigmas above the mean that I feel comfortable making that bet. If you were to reveal your identity and it turned out you were, say, Guido van Rossom, I might lose the bet and have to update my prior.

> You mean people that are passionate enough about programming to voluntarily write code on evenings and weekend and share it for the broader community of developers

Nah, I mean people who assume anyone who isn't exactly like them must be a second-rate human being or at least a second-rate member of their profession. This is the same personality flaw that turns enthusiastic, inveterate puzzle solvers into the kind of puzzle-mad interviewers you seem to hate with a vengeance. Isn't it nice to find out you have something in common?

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#89

Post by pnathan »

I looked at the demo site.

I know there are domains which call for Project Euler solutions.

Really. I do.

But I only run into "CS" problems about once a month right now. The rest of it is code cranking, talking with people, and working on deadlines.

I'm not saying that this is drek in the stream. It's not. It's just... not even close to a demonstration of what I can do for the company I work for.

Yes, I could work out these solutions. But (these days) I'd rather work on writing software rather than developing one-off algorithms.

(And of course this sort of thing tempts me to submit in Haskell or Lisp, because hey, more mathematical notation. And you probably don't want to read >>= or ))))), do you? ;-) )

I'd rather share my open-source code (it's on github and bitbucket!), talk about my prior projects, and present my ability to work with other human beings to get the task at hand done.

Yet- all that said - Best of luck, Interview Street. Anything that helps people connect with jobs they are suited for is a good thing in my book.

Re: Interview Street (YC S11) streamlines the search for great programmers

#90

Post by bumbledraven »

bugsy wrote: post #43

A computer program automatically torturing applicants with endless puzzle tests is not a way to find talented qualified people with experience delivering working results that delight the user. It's a good way to find people that have a lot of free time to play games because they are unemployed. In the years following my first job out of school (decades ago) I can't recall any work that I have gotten by going to these…

There are some people who do these kinds of problems for fun. As a recruiter, I know plenty of companies who would be interested in interviewing people like that, and this is one way to reach those people.
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