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The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

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Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#71
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything on Android is totally moot. You can "turn off locations" but you don't know if it has. It also has a dozen other ways to track you when correlated with others, such as inertial, wifi, cell cgi, audio, magnetic, bluetooth, optical, pressure, etc; some of which are in the baseband and inaccessible to the OS. You can keep it in a faraday bag but it can still record and upload later. Same thing could be said abo…

> If you care about privacy just don't carry a phone. I feel like this position is unrealistic. Privacy is possible with a modern smartphone. Using an alternative OS on Android devices can help facilitate this. I've been using GrapheneOS as a daily driver for nearly six months now. Any issues I've run into have largely been due to my own configuration of the device. You can also get a lot of useful information from M…

> As it stands, true privacy is relegated to the technologically elite, the truly paranoid, or those that can pay to play. I would love for that to change, but unfortunately that's the current state of affairs.

Or the broke who can't afford the devices now more and more used against us.

Or those who are willing to forgo the conveniences of such devices in exchange for privacy. Or, simply for the sanity of not having to deal with them.

I'm firmly in the boat of "Could do any or all of those things" - I considered a PinePhone, have a PineBook Pro, could easily do GrapheneOS, and... I'm currently using none of them. I'm using an AT&T Flip IV that I leave at home regularly. If I have some fancy requirement, I can tether a laptop to it.

You start from the assumption that a smartphone of some variety or another is a requirement - and I'll counter that, while it's certainly the default option of modern life, the smartphone is really only a decade old, and there are ways of doing things without it we can go back to - and those things do generally still work.

I'm at a point in my life where both I can be a bit annoying about things like reachability, and, interestingly, I'm hostile enough to tech that people expect me to be a bit weird about things. Nobody was surprised when I showed up with a flip phone - but they were surprised that I still had things like email and Google Maps capability on it (KaiOS). At which point, the gears started turning.

Trying to find a way to de-evil what is looking more and more like a corrupted, user-hostile system through and through doesn't seem worth the time, when one can work towards not requiring people to be in that system in the first place.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies. At this point, I think every piece of modern consumer electronics ought to be considered hostile until proven benign. I've worked with enough of them over the years, on different ends,…

I recently set my google location history to auto-delete. At first I wanted to keep it recording my location history forever because "just in case" I needed to know where I was for something that was extremely unimportant. Overall, I've looked at it only handful of times over the many years it has been running so in the end it really helps Google more than it helps me. I might even just turn it off completely. I'm sl…

I love Google Location History.

If you're trying to make a point to someone about how much of a problem data collection, use, abuse, etc, is - link them to the place they can view their own history. It's even more fun if you're with them and can watch the expression of utter horror form as they realize just what, exactly, literally everywhere they've been can tell someone else about them. "Hey, isn't that the kink club out there?"

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. If we had better privacy laws, this wouldn't be an issue.

Cops don't care about the privacy laws which already exist. (See: parallel construction.) If we had better privacy laws, they would just get sneakier.

Cops care deeply about what privacy laws exist. That still limits what data they can legitimately get access to. In this case they could of used a Stingray or equivalent but:

* They would not of known where to place it before the crime took place.

* Even if they somehow got the data about the location of the cyclist under the table they would have had no way to parallel construct anything.

Since there was no other evidence that would of been it.

This is not a new thing. The authorities can open and read your mail as much as they want using bamboo splints and/or the steam from a kettle. But because it is very illegal to do that it greatly reduces the abuse possible from such actions.

Privacy laws are a prerequisite and are essential.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#74
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything on Android is totally moot. You can "turn off locations" but you don't know if it has. It also has a dozen other ways to track you when correlated with others, such as inertial, wifi, cell cgi, audio, magnetic, bluetooth, optical, pressure, etc; some of which are in the baseband and inaccessible to the OS. You can keep it in a faraday bag but it can still record and upload later. Same thing could be said abo…

> If you care about privacy just don't carry a phone. I feel like this position is unrealistic. Privacy is possible with a modern smartphone. Using an alternative OS on Android devices can help facilitate this. I've been using GrapheneOS as a daily driver for nearly six months now. Any issues I've run into have largely been due to my own configuration of the device. You can also get a lot of useful information from M…

>I feel like this position is unrealistic.

I'm not sure it's unrealistic but the tradeoffs for ditching a phone entirely day-in day-out wouldn't work for most people.

As you say there are alternatives for smartphones and one could presumably alternatively carry a feature phone that can't be easily tied to their identity. (Although there's an increasing assumption that you have a smartphone to accomplish various tasks.)

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#75

Someone (Eric Schmidt? not sure) once said, "If you really want something to be private, don't put it on a computer." Still the best advice. Rather than storing it and then worrying about where it goes, just don't store it.

Don't put it on a computer, don't say it within earshot of a computer, and don't have it visible to any computer's camera: getting pretty impossible to follow this advice.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#76

Someone (Eric Schmidt? not sure) once said, "If you really want something to be private, don't put it on a computer." Still the best advice. Rather than storing it and then worrying about where it goes, just don't store it.

Where’s a startup selling Kaczynski shacks when you need one?

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#77
post #71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you care about privacy just don't carry a phone. I feel like this position is unrealistic. Privacy is possible with a modern smartphone. Using an alternative OS on Android devices can help facilitate this. I've been using GrapheneOS as a daily driver for nearly six months now. Any issues I've run into have largely been due to my own configuration of the device. You can also get a lot of useful information from M…

> As it stands, true privacy is relegated to the technologically elite, the truly paranoid, or those that can pay to play. I would love for that to change, but unfortunately that's the current state of affairs. Or the broke who can't afford the devices now more and more used against us. Or those who are willing to forgo the conveniences of such devices in exchange for privacy. Or, simply for the sanity of not having…

I know someone from school who is a fairly senior manager at one of the FAANGs. He only got a cell phone in the first place because he and his wife adopted and the nanny insisted. I know he has a company-issued smartphone now. Don't know if his personal phone is a smartphone by now or if he's still using a flip phone of some sort.

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#78
Related past threads. Others?

Google says geofence warrants make up one-quarter of all US demands - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266650 - Aug 2021 (259 comments)

New Federal Court Rulings Find Geofence Warrants Unconstitutional - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24342049 - Sept 2020 (29 comments)

Google Gives Feds 1,500 Phone Locations in Unprecedented ‘Geofence’ Search - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21773543 - Dec 2019 (269 comments)

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#79

Someone (Eric Schmidt? not sure) once said, "If you really want something to be private, don't put it on a computer." Still the best advice. Rather than storing it and then worrying about where it goes, just don't store it.

Don't put it on a computer, don't say it within earshot of a computer, and don't have it visible to any computer's camera: getting pretty impossible to follow this advice.

How do I turn off my existence?

Re: The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history

#80
post #76

Someone (Eric Schmidt? not sure) once said, "If you really want something to be private, don't put it on a computer." Still the best advice. Rather than storing it and then worrying about where it goes, just don't store it.

Where’s a startup selling Kaczynski shacks when you need one?

So there's a record of everyone they sell a shack to? Come on. You gotta build your own Kaczynski shack. Amateur hour over here.
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