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Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

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Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#171

Post by marttt »

olivermarks wrote: post #150
marttt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in a country of 1.5 million people, it often feels devastating how big a part of political/intellectual discussion in our (tiny) language actually takes place in Facebook. I have worked in journalism, so maybe it's sour grapes in a way, but: most of the great writers are there. All the politicians are there. Our prime minister first announces crucial things on her FB wall, etc. In short, if you want to partici…

I feel you can apply the maxim 'in politics nothing happens by accident' to Facebook despite their earnest attempts to claim unintended consequences. They are a highly important component of our divide and rule political era on multiple levels and sadly are doing an excellent job.

True. In the early 2010s, I used to ponder whether journalism is actually dying -- meaning, now that we have social media, traditional gatekeeper-journalism [1] is simply not needed any more. During the passed decade, it has become obvious that as long as a social network is also a megacorporation, this idea won't work. We still need the better parts of traditional journalism to check what's going on behind the curtains of profit-driven social networks. Really messy, but also truly interesting times for journalism for sure.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatekeeping_(communication)

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#172

Post by sevilo »

standardUser wrote: post #148

I always feel like people never discuss the elephant in the room, which is that whoever you are, your feed is dictated by the people and pages you have chosen to follow. It doesn't matter what the platform is. If you give people the flexibility to craft their own feed, and they want to craft a feed full of hate and lies and nonsense, how can we ever stop them? Meanwhile, my feed has zero politics and is comprised alm…

It used to be fun when it was just my friends, sure once in the while you get that annoying person who’s trying to live a completely different life on social media but overall funny memes, shitposting with friends, checking in at places. Until Facebook implemented the ultimate evil suggestion feature and brought in news articles then everything went to hell.

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#173

Post by streamofdigits »

owl_troupe wrote: post #137
streamofdigits wrote: post #82

Good luck supporting a $trillion valuation on the basis of a "healthier place". The business of social media platforms is to maximize profit by monetizing their user base. Friedman instructed MBA students that they must pursue this diligently, using any and all legal tricks in the book. Yes sure, as good managers they need to protect long-term shareholder value. They should, in general, want to strike the right balan…

> start worrying about more serious problems I completely agree with your sentiment, but what societal problem isn't currently being made worse by political polarization and misinformation on Facebook? Take your pick: genocide[1], climate change denialism[2], anti-democratic efforts[3], public health misinformation [4], just to name a few. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-rohingya-facebook... [2] https:…

yes, it is my view too that solving the "social media" fiasco is a prerequisite (or at least major facilitator) of all the real and urgent social problems.

what I meant to say it is pointless to wait for facebook to fix itself as that cannot be done in the universe these folks are operating in.

It would have to be either:

i) a heavy (Chinese style) regulatory hammer descenting on them (0% chance in the oligopoly-captured US political system) or

ii) any decent person (anyone that thinks there is such a thing as society, has any affinity with humanism and its values, respecting and empowering people as persons) simply abandons them and takes the discussion elsewhere. The critical mass for seeding viable alternatives is much smaller than the bulk of average users

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#174

Post by gjvc »

gjvc wrote: post #156
elliekelly wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think another factor is that they’re trying to quickly turn a massive ship that has, for years, self-selected users intent on heading in the direction of outrage and toxicity. The people who are the most “engaged” with the platform are the people who get a dopamine rush from arguing and baiting and instigating. The nice people who just want to see what their friends are up to have either left or significantly scale…

Right on. I've seen the posts/posters in many local fora in the UK have two defining characteristics. They are judgemental, and they are nosy in equal measure. [1] I put the recent increase in this down to people's familiarity with the technology, having grown up with it -- those people only 10/15 years older have seen life before and after the revolution, and behave differently. Specifically, when local fora started…

I forgot about the incessant hand-wringing and virtue signalling posts (typically made after someone reports a crime such as a street robbery), and these are also made from behind anonymous usernames. (any social capital created anonymously like this is useless in real life, so the motivation must be for some other reason such as entertainment or personal satisfaction)

Note, this is not me passing judgement on people -- quite the opposite -- the whole point is that they can't and wouldn't be like this in real life, but the medium of the forum allows for it, which makes this cocktail of usage characteristics on these fora a recipe for quite strange reading, over time.

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#175

Post by native_samples »

romwell wrote: post #120
native_samples wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like this is a core point that's somehow got lost here. There's a lot of assumptions in these discussions that connections and sharing are only good and useful if the results look a certain way. People sharing dog photos: good. Sharing approved mainstream news stories: good. People posting personal politics: bad. People disagreeing with each other: also bad. Etc. But it's a purely subjective take. Maybe our…

The problem I see on FB is less with what people argue about, but how . It feels like people are just saying things at each other trying to "win" an argument. Of course, that's a problem with education, not FB. And I think it's a good thing that it's surfaced on FB. FB can act as toxic behavior multiplier, though.

I don't know if it's a problem with education but more likely, deeply held implicit assumptions that aren't being articulated.

Most political disagreements fall into this category. E.g. arguments about COVID stuff are usually rooted in differences in assumptions about things like the trustworthiness of the establishment, the corrupting strength of profit, whether events are best explained as conspiracy or cockup, etc. Because they're sort of all-encompassing and vague people don't or can't easily spell them out, leading to the "talking at" not "talking with" problem. But that isn't to do with Facebook. It's inherent to humanity.

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#176

Post by moate »

OneEyedRobot wrote: post #157
moate wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in that cohort who was also there for the "glory" days of early FB (when you had to have a college email to sign up), I have to agree that at this point the idea of making friends on FB weirds me out. How? Why? FB is what my racist parents use to circle jerk conspiracy theories with their friends in Cabo. Who in their right mind wants that anymore? (This is a rhetorical question, I understand there are sti…

>FB is what my racist parents use It looks to me like you've got bigger fish to fry than Facebook. It's probably time to give your parents a break.

Oh I haven't spoken to my parents in 2 years. Don't worry, that's taken care of.

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#177

Post by golemotron »

randcraw wrote: post #133
golemotron wrote: post #121

People communicate to say things that they think are important. We should not be surprised when a medium that allows more broadcast-level communication becomes dominated by those things rather than "how was your day?" Ads are a canard. The earliest non-ad-driven social networks: USENET, mailing lists etc, had the same problems.

USENET had an entirely different set of users than today's anonymous trolls, which minimized flame-fests. Sure, disagreement drove much conversation on the groups, but it was generally topic-driven and constructive, targeting ideas much more than people. Vitriol back then was the exception rather than the rule. Those groups (aside from alt.*) where denizens crossed the line often added moderation, which usually tampe…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#178

Post by hinkley »

Jensson wrote: post #166
hinkley wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PMs who think like this are the kids who stand around two kids about to fight, egging them on. These are not your friends. These are not good people.

Superintendent: What is this gathering of people? Teacher: Two kids are fighting sir. Superintendent: And people are watching? Teacher: Yes sir. Superintendent: Great engagement! Lets put those kids next to each other so we can get more of this!

They're mostly just standing around gesturing at each other though. Can we make them 'interact' more?

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#179

Post by jeanofthedead »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #55
VortexDream wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I unfollowed everybody, joined a bunch of local special interest groups and met a ton of new people who lived in the same city. Facebook is actually an incredible tool to connect with other people. But the more I saw how FB behaved, the less I wanted to be involved in any way with their business. I ended up deleting my FB account, which even now 3 years later I feel was a huge loss for me. But I just can't do FB anym…

I've always been surprised that Facebook did not try to spin out Events like they did with Messenger. Facebook Events is an incredible product.

Facebook created "Facebook Events," later renamed "Facebook Local" for iOS and Android. And nobody I know has ever heard of it.

https://www.facebook.com/local

Re: Facebook tried to make its platform a healthier place, but it got angrier

#180

Post by fortuna86 »

moate wrote: post #176
OneEyedRobot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>FB is what my racist parents use It looks to me like you've got bigger fish to fry than Facebook. It's probably time to give your parents a break.

Oh I haven't spoken to my parents in 2 years. Don't worry, that's taken care of.

I would try and reconnect and avoid politics. If they are older, they might not be around that much longer.
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