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The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

ethanzuckerman.com

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Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#41

Post by simmerup »

nemo44x wrote: post #32
simmerup wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when a rowdy prisoner breaks the VR headset and is suddenly trapped alone in a box for 10 years. What state do you think he’ll be in when he’s let out? Ridiculous idea

Lobotomy was used for this purpose for many years to make unruly prisoners docile. The practice is still legal (and doesn't use an ice pick any longer), however it is rarely used today. There are however an array of medications that could be administrated to force compliance and do not cause a permanent state like a lobotomy would. But yes, the entire idea is dehumanizing in my opinion.

Dehumanising is the Silicon Valley status quo.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#42

Post by scythe »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #28
thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be one of my spicier opinions but I think we should have caning for some crimes. Fines and incarceration both have collateral damage, if the person punished is responsible for anyone. Fines are regressive. Incarceration has a host of well known problems. But, unfortunately, a sufficiently dangerous person does need to be physically put away. Being held against your will may well do wonders for people you thr…

It's not particularly spicy, but it has absolutely no evidence to support its effectiveness, either as a deterrent or as rehabiliitation. In fact plenty of historical evidence suggests it not only doesn't work, it makes reoffending more likely. There's no space for "Well, obviously..." in prison management. Effects are often not obvious at all. This is fine if you really want revenge porn, but not so much if you want…

>It's not particularly spicy, but it has absolutely no evidence to support its effectiveness, either as a deterrent or as rehabiliitation.

A strong claim. A few minutes of searching found no strong evidence for or against its effectiveness, or that is superior or inferior to incarceration. Much more seems to have been written about the morality and public opinion of the practice (e.g. [1, 2]). It is known that corporal punishment of children causes developmental harms, but this does not extend naturally to adults.

1: https://journals.co.za/doi/abs/10.10520/EJC85246

2: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2722140

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#43

Post by SavantIdiot »

I know most of you hate this word, but this is a great example of what privilege looks like: thinking you can solve a problem you have zero experience with, and not including people who do.

Another example:

I was at a hackathon and met this kid who wanted to build a wristband for domestic violence victims so they could push a button and call for help when they were being abused.

Great idea, he wants to use his tech knowledge to help abused spouses! That's fantastic! Nothing wrong with that and it should be supported. But since he has never experienced being an abuse victim, nor did he consult any, he didn't realize what a useless idea this is. (As soon as the abuser knows what the device is, you think they will allow it in the house, let alone take heavy retribution for buying it? Even if it was a subtle/hidden device, being caught with it would mean even more abuse.)

Heart is in the right place, but intellectual arrogance needs some dialing in.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#44

Post by nemo44x »

ModernMech wrote: post #39
nemo44x wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a pretty easy problem to solve with auditable surveillance that is redundantly deployed and has realtime ML algorithms that "watch" it.

And this surveillance system would be controlled by…

Multiple independent auditors?

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#45

Post by SavantIdiot »

mtnygard wrote: post #24
_fat_santa wrote: post #5

Archive link to the story the author is talking about https://web.archive.org/web/20160304065420/http://maneatingr...

It's not satire? I thought the author was deliberately constructing The Matrix one element at a time.

I think the film "Cube" is superior in this context, is about exactly your point: [SPOILER ALERT]

:

:

:

:

:

Blind bureaucracy creating a city-cized torture device over the course of decades, everyone built a little piece of it, but no one knows what it is.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#46

Post by nixpulvis »

simmerup wrote: post #41
nemo44x wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lobotomy was used for this purpose for many years to make unruly prisoners docile. The practice is still legal (and doesn't use an ice pick any longer), however it is rarely used today. There are however an array of medications that could be administrated to force compliance and do not cause a permanent state like a lobotomy would. But yes, the entire idea is dehumanizing in my opinion.

Dehumanising is the Silicon Valley status quo.

And it's spreading!

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#47

Post by stnmtn »

nemo44x wrote: post #34
ModernMech wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is obviously bad because it’s ostensibly designed to protect prisoners by reducing the opportunity for prisoner-on-prisoner violence. A noble goal, but what this fails to recognize is a good chunk of prison violence originates from guards, including sexual assault. I fear giving guards free reign to isolated prisoners would have the exact opposite effect of reducing violence in prison.

That sounds like a pretty easy problem to solve with auditable surveillance that is redundantly deployed and has realtime ML algorithms that "watch" it.

"Here's a historically hard problem that we've had and experienced for decades if not centuries with multifaceted origins and no clear answer"

HN: "Just use ML, seems pretty easy to me".

I don't meant to disparage you, but that is how your comment came across to me.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#48

Post by brendoelfrendo »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #27
ashtonkem wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps, insofar as it's arbitrary to be more concerned about the well-being of victims than perpetrators. I’d argue that our current system isn’t really interested in the well being of victims either. Or rather, it’s only interested with the victims when the victims express specific opinions. The actual relationship between crime, survivors, retribution, and forgiveness is an extremely complex matter. Consider the…

When you say “our current system”, which country are you referring to?

Contextually, I'm assuming the US, because they specifically mention Sirhan Sirhan, the Kennedy family, and high recidivism rates, all things applicable to the US justice system.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#49

Post by Moodles »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #43

I know most of you hate this word, but this is a great example of what privilege looks like: thinking you can solve a problem you have zero experience with, and not including people who do. Another example: I was at a hackathon and met this kid who wanted to build a wristband for domestic violence victims so they could push a button and call for help when they were being abused. Great idea, he wants to use his tech k…

I'm kind of with your point but also not. You don't have to actually be a victim of cancer or even know anyone personally who has cancer, to help cure it. To say "it's privilege" is a weird way of phrasing it. It's just a person who needs to do better user research before building a product.

Re: The worst thing I read this year, and what it taught me (2016)

#50

Post by ashtonkem »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #48
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say “our current system”, which country are you referring to?

Contextually, I'm assuming the US, because they specifically mention Sirhan Sirhan, the Kennedy family, and high recidivism rates, all things applicable to the US justice system.

You are correct.
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