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Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

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Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#121

Post by loeg »

Arnt wrote: post #117
Woodi wrote: post #115

Attempts to prohibit repairing things is stupid and it is stupid on regulators part to not seeing it progresses. But allowing live-testing auto-drive technology on public roads is beyound that. Police should just pull over anyone who turn this on and is on the move and revoke driver driving license. Simple as that. "Oh, but it works for me..." is not how public security standards are created.

I think you're holding Tesla to a perhaps unreachable standard here. Before I go on, I'd like to digress and come out as a Waymo fanboi. I've been that ever since I read about a demonstration involving the software developers walking in front of the car, blindfolded . I admire that attitude, I really do. They put their feet where it matters. But back to Tesla. What other than public roads is similar to public roads,…

> I know Waymo tests its software on recordings of public roads, but those recordings were made on public roads too.

Recording a human driver on public roads is very different from testing a novel software product on public roads.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#123

Post by sumedh »

rndmind wrote: post #87
lmilcin wrote: post #57

"Not perfect". Yes, killing pedestrians is not perfect. I mean, seriously. You are too fucking optimistic guys. Go back to the drawing board. If your program can do that you are way off from the target. You can't write software on which innocent lives depend like you would write a startup AI showcase.

Just to clarify here. no pedestrians were hit, and no one died. I am curious how many people died on the first airplanes and commercial airline travel ( from 1900 - 1950's ) Do you suggest that the government should have made commercial airline travel illegal until there were zero accidents?

We dont live in 1900 - 1950's, the standard of safety has improved.

Would you have the same opinion if a self driving car killed your loved one?

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#124

Post by npteljes »

yakkityyak wrote: post #39
Aliabid94 wrote: post #18

If you have to anxiously hover your hands over the wheel constantly like the driver is in this video, is it really helpful even if it doesn't crash? I don't own a Tesla, curious how other drivers are when on Autopilot.

The cognitive load of using FSD in a city honestly seems more than driving yourself. The car is no longer an extension of yourself, where you navigate the road carefully. Instead you are constantly trying to predict and determine if FSD is going to screw up, and how to quickly react to said screw up.

This is what I don't get at all about autopilot. It's fantastic that it can do X, but if I have to supervise and also take full responsibility, then what's my benefit? That I get to babysit the latest shiny tech? It either takes off the mental load of me paying attention to the road, or I'll drive myself.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#125

Post by diggernet »

GravitasFailure wrote: post #101
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should. Having a car in front of you means that part of the view of the road is obstructed. IMO the veering car has a moral duty to signal to the next car especially if the veering is unexpected. Now the state law on signaling says "No person shall turn a vehicle..." but I can't find what the definition for "turn" is, so there may be no legal obligation, but I do see a social obligation.

You need to signal when you're leaving the lane or street you're currently on, not when it bends. Nobody ever signals on bends because that's sending bad information. Considering how erratic the car was with signaling and turning I really have no idea what it "thought" it was doing at all.

That's ok, it doesn't have any idea either...

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#126

Post by md2020 »

dham wrote: post #41

I've been using Open Pilot for the last 3 months (Rav4 Hybrid). I've really enjoyed it a lot on the highways. It also works really well in stop and go traffic. I'm starting to agree with George Hotz about making driving chill. Highway driving is chill. Stop and go traffic is chill. There's nothing chill about letting a car drive in these situations (pulling out intersections, right hand turn on red, congested streets…

Agreed. Just waiting on a good BEV that has full openpilot compatibility, maybe Hyundai Ioniq 5. Openpilot has a great community as well.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#127

Post by Arnt »

loeg wrote: post #121
Arnt wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're holding Tesla to a perhaps unreachable standard here. Before I go on, I'd like to digress and come out as a Waymo fanboi. I've been that ever since I read about a demonstration involving the software developers walking in front of the car, blindfolded . I admire that attitude, I really do. They put their feet where it matters. But back to Tesla. What other than public roads is similar to public roads,…

> I know Waymo tests its software on recordings of public roads, but those recordings were made on public roads too. Recording a human driver on public roads is very different from testing a novel software product on public roads.

I've been told that Waymo (and before that, Google) recorded those traces using employees in the driver's seat, but mostly with the computer making the decisions, not the human.

But suppose it was collected by a human. In that case, the first time the software is run completely (all sensors, all software, everything run together) is in the final production deployment. Is that better than testing the very same software earlier, in a beta setting which is identical to production except that sensor data is collected for the development process?

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#128

Post by jazzyjackson »

gpm wrote: post #82
notJim wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the blue track on the screen, the car is indicating it's going to go straight, not that it plans to turn right. I think the word veer is applicable because it is sudden and unexpected. If this was only a mistimed right turn, I might feel differently.

I mean it does look like it got lost, but the blue line in the "this is what I'm sensing and going to do in the next 30 seconds" view started indicating a full turn the instant it started turning.

what good is a blue line of what it’s planning, if the blue line changes the instant a new plan is made, such that the driver is surprised their car is making a right turn?

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#129

Post by jazzyjackson »

88j88 wrote: post #77

Just wondering how much of an increase do insurance companies charge for cars with autopilot?

I was thinking of this too when watching one of the videos testing whether their car would weave through concrete pillars. if you record yourself colliding with a concrete wall because you were testing beta software, does insurance pay out?

Re: Tesla FSD Beta 10 veers into pedestrians with illegal right turn

#130

Post by ruph123 »

dham wrote: post #41

I've been using Open Pilot for the last 3 months (Rav4 Hybrid). I've really enjoyed it a lot on the highways. It also works really well in stop and go traffic. I'm starting to agree with George Hotz about making driving chill. Highway driving is chill. Stop and go traffic is chill. There's nothing chill about letting a car drive in these situations (pulling out intersections, right hand turn on red, congested streets…

So from Googling, Open Pilot is more a fancy HUD and camera system that assists the driver but leaves all control with him/her? Did not follow Hotz for a while and the last thing I remember was that he was also just working on another full self driving startup.
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