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India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

economist.com

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Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#31

Can someone help me understand identity politics in India? There are a lot of things I don't understand, for example, there are some people that find it really important to tell others that the caste system doesn't exist, or is like really sensitive to anything negative said about India. Is that just run-of-the-mill nationalism? Because if so, it is hilarious when it's another country's nationalism.

Caste system, at least where I live (which I believe to be fairly progressive part of country, as my travels have revealed there are worse places) is like a strong undercurrent to the social psychosis. It is not obvious to the newcomer, and we appear a very amalgamated bunch, all working in same company, going to same school and so on. But then you live here for a while, go sufficiently wide and deep, and then you feel it, and realise it is too strong to change in 3 generations.

I didn't realise for a long time, but I looks back and see that somehow, upper caste kids always stuck together. There parents always had social events together, and even though we shared same society, other families weren't invited. Every 'class' has to have their own very public, very loud 'holidays'. Caste based marriages are pretty obvious, though that is changing slowly. People have biases in simple places, like simply knowing someone's surname means you can put them in a caste/category and then first impression is already made.

Things are changing, definitely, but slowly and not always in right direction. The 'reservation' or quotas in college admissions, government jobs and so on, created to make a level playing field is creating a new privileged class that is 'lower caste' in name only. This is creating new divide and I'm not sure thatcan be changed because suggesting otherwise is political suicide.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#32
post #2

Old habits die hard. We abolished slavery and then replaced it with Jim Crow laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws We have the biggest concentration camps in the world for primarily people of color. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_... https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration “ Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has nearly 25% of…

Related tangent: this is why the U.S. foreign policy of "winning hearts and minds" is such garbage.

Cultures change, but at much lower frequency than the U.S. government's capability to do more than vaguely encourage.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#33

This is a real risk when working with offshore teams in India. We had to get involved in the interview process multiple times as the talent is absolutely there. But left to their own devices a lot of the sites ended up hiring friends or "cousins". I'm not sure if that came down to Caste or just "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" but it was far from meritocratic.

Hard to generalize about a country of over a billion people but in many areas of India there is a strong sense of “keep money in the family” which is why they like to hire their cousins. That’s also why even marrying first cousins is so common in certain areas. In the south, about 25% of people marry their first cousin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#India

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#34
post #2

Old habits die hard. We abolished slavery and then replaced it with Jim Crow laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws We have the biggest concentration camps in the world for primarily people of color. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_... https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration “ Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has nearly 25% of…

"One out of every three Black boys born today can expect to go to prison in his lifetime"

You're literally repeating a White-Nationalist talking point

Disgusting

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am more optimistic that the caste system will die out within our lifetime. Almost all the younger people I know in India are on dating apps and they are dating people who they would not have met otherwise. I do not know how it is in villages of India , which are stuck in medieval times, but kids in small towns and cities have found sexual liberation in dating apps. If the economy of India improves such that kids ar…

I look at western society with a fairly rigid class system (wealthy, middle and poor classes) that doesn’t get talked about but it’s very real.

Huh? I think you've just missed out the last 120 years of western history. I could agree if you've said: It doesn'T get talked about enough.

See the newest class-y development: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-masking-of-the-servant-...

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#36

India vedas talk about “varna” - class system based on ability & skills, not caste system. Modern Indian caste system was introduced by British to divide and conquer. Economist with a long history of Hindu phobia and in the vein of colonial British rake it up every now and then. Caste comes from Spanish casta, no equivalent term exists in sanskrit for this.

jatis have been endogymous for ~2000 years according to genetic studies. nowhere else on earth has this level of genetic segregation within a single region.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#37

This is a real risk when working with offshore teams in India. We had to get involved in the interview process multiple times as the talent is absolutely there. But left to their own devices a lot of the sites ended up hiring friends or "cousins". I'm not sure if that came down to Caste or just "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" but it was far from meritocratic.

There is definitely caste system in hiring process. If you take any big company operating in India, and you will most certainly find the caste system replicated in the corporate structure in India. The Brahmin caste dominates the corporate hierarchies and are the perpetrators of this system, typically through favoritism and through their early advantage (but their grip is loosening up slowly).

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#38
post #23

and how does the govt try to solve? by reservation quota. give college seats , jobs, promotions, etc for people with lower scores and their children and their children & forever.

you don't understand social justice, do you ?

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#39
post #12

It's been a while that I've been to India (last millennium...). Back then, the Times of India had pages and pages of lonely hearts ads in the back, or rather, matrimonial ads. They were sorted by caste, though there were two special categories for NRI (Non resident Indians, i.e. expats) and MBA (yes, Master of Business Administration graduates) - they seem to transcend caste. The ads typically specified the industry…

I am more optimistic that the caste system will die out within our lifetime. Almost all the younger people I know in India are on dating apps and they are dating people who they would not have met otherwise. I do not know how it is in villages of India , which are stuck in medieval times, but kids in small towns and cities have found sexual liberation in dating apps. If the economy of India improves such that kids ar…

Try Tindering in any big Indian city:)

Demands are rather specific:

- ICS grade 3, seeking ICS, or a practicing lawyer

- MBA Columbia blah blah blah, glads outside top 100 need not apply

- Or even simpler: "seeking computer engineer, programmer, Java consultant for marriage"

The last almost fell me out of the chair.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#40
post #9

Caste is so insane, in western diaspora communities its thankfully starting to die out though. My generation (3rd generation in the west) aren't really educated enough on traditions to know about caste or care.

over 90% of american indians are brahmin anyway https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/getting-america-...
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