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India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

economist.com

11–20 of 86 posts

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#12
It's been a while that I've been to India (last millennium...). Back then, the Times of India had pages and pages of lonely hearts ads in the back, or rather, matrimonial ads. They were sorted by caste, though there were two special categories for NRI (Non resident Indians, i.e. expats) and MBA (yes, Master of Business Administration graduates) - they seem to transcend caste. The ads typically specified the industry and income of the candidate (or their family) in LPA (lakh per annum); some would specify that "caste no bar", and a few allowed that the "bride may apply herself" (rather than the family).

Quite eye-opening. I wonder how things are today.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#13
You know what's really sad about this? The caste system prevent a huge part of the population to contribute to the demographic dividends that made China, SK and Japan the powerhouses they are. India is taking the same path as Turkey and South Africa, and as long as the mixture of the caste system and the religious troubles they have is not fixed, even the Brahmins will pay the price (not even taking into consideration the climate drift).

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#14
post #12

It's been a while that I've been to India (last millennium...). Back then, the Times of India had pages and pages of lonely hearts ads in the back, or rather, matrimonial ads. They were sorted by caste, though there were two special categories for NRI (Non resident Indians, i.e. expats) and MBA (yes, Master of Business Administration graduates) - they seem to transcend caste. The ads typically specified the industry…

I am more optimistic that the caste system will die out within our lifetime. Almost all the younger people I know in India are on dating apps and they are dating people who they would not have met otherwise. I do not know how it is in villages of India , which are stuck in medieval times, but kids in small towns and cities have found sexual liberation in dating apps. If the economy of India improves such that kids are less dependent on parental money , you will see the caste system die out soon.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#15
post #8

> The forebears of nearly two-thirds of India’s Catholics are Dalits who converted to escape stigma. Yet among four cardinals and 31 archbishops, only two are of Dalit origin. (Rest of it aside) that specifically doesn't seem necessarily that bad? If many of them aren't exactly devout Catholics ('converted to escape') then it seems reasonable they wouldn't (perhaps even want to!) reach high office. And there's perhap…

What you say makes sense. But some of these people are really poor.

Among the "racist" people in the US, many are actually "classist". That also runs high in Indian society.

In my experience Christians are much more forward thinking and secular than other minorities in India. They live peacefully and blend very well with the Hindus. Even most of their names, outside of Goa, Mumbai, etc., are derived from Sanskrit, Tamil, Bengali roots depending on the region. A lot of Indian Christians will have only one name, i.e. middle name or first name identifying their Christian identity. Sometimes they often just ommit the Christian part except in official documents.

Anyway, this is a good sign totally as you say, but that is true in prosperous regions and/or households.

For backward regions and poor families, I am not sure if people will even let them hold religious offices.

Btw, even Christians can claim backward castes benefits if their ancestors happened to belong to a so called lower caste when they were not Christians.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#17
post #13

You know what's really sad about this? The caste system prevent a huge part of the population to contribute to the demographic dividends that made China, SK and Japan the powerhouses they are. India is taking the same path as Turkey and South Africa, and as long as the mixture of the caste system and the religious troubles they have is not fixed, even the Brahmins will pay the price (not even taking into consideratio…

> The caste system prevent a huge part of the population to contribute to the demographic dividends

Over the years India has implemented several affirmative action programs (locally called "reservations") that ensures a more level playing field.

India has actually done reasonably well economically since 1995. Unless you can point to specific studies that correlate India's less-than-spectacular economic performance to the caste system directly, this is a fairly baseless statement. You only have to take a quick look at the last 10 year average GDP.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#18
post #2

Old habits die hard. We abolished slavery and then replaced it with Jim Crow laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws We have the biggest concentration camps in the world for primarily people of color. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_... https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration “ Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has nearly 25% of…

It would definitely be nice if we had less crime. Anyway, this is not relates to the article. Go preach somewhere else.

The crime self perpetuates by breaking up families (a parent is in prison), using the criminal record to exclude people from jobs leading them to resort to... crimes

The nation can collectively pursue different solutions to increase productivity as well as its own domestic security.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#19
Can someone help me understand identity politics in India? There are a lot of things I don't understand, for example, there are some people that find it really important to tell others that the caste system doesn't exist, or is like really sensitive to anything negative said about India. Is that just run-of-the-mill nationalism? Because if so, it is hilarious when it's another country's nationalism.

Re: India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence

#20
Seems like the caste system is really hard to shake. Reminds me of this podcast on how it still rears its head in US tech companies: https://www.npr.org/2020/10/14/923736245/caste-arrives-in-si...

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952698

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