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Facebook under fire over secret teen research

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#161

Post by na85 »

inetknght wrote: post #145
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would our world be like if it were illegal to have a social media account until you were 21 years old? Is that the question you take away? Mine is... What would our world be like if it were illegal to lie to or otherwise obstruct Congress?

> if it were illegal to lie to or otherwise obstruct Congress? Not only is it illegal to lie to Congress but it should be illegal for corporations to lie to anyone in public statements.

>Not only is it illegal to lie to Congress

Only for the plebs. As James Clapper demonstrated, there is a separate set of laws for the elites.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#162

Post by dragonwriter »

na85 wrote: post #161
inetknght wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it were illegal to lie to or otherwise obstruct Congress? Not only is it illegal to lie to Congress but it should be illegal for corporations to lie to anyone in public statements.

>Not only is it illegal to lie to Congress Only for the plebs. As James Clapper demonstrated, there is a separate set of laws for the elites.

> As James Clapper demonstrated, there is a separate set of laws for the elites.

Surely, the banner example here id Brett Kavanaugh, whose lies in his Circuit Court confirmation hearing were punished with a seat on the Supreme Court.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#163

Post by errantmind »

snuser wrote: post #121
errantmind wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who work at companies that seem 'immoral' are able to justify it because they work on such a small part as to avoid any feeling of responsibility. The same could be said of soldiers in an army used for oppression. They don't feel responsible for the outcomes because they aren't the ones making the decisions, or they work 'behind the scenes'. I personally don't judge any of them but I can see how you could…

It feels off, before working at facebook I was unable to buy a house and wouldn't have been able to retire at 67 I've worked a for a lot of 'nicer' small companies and they pretty much threw me in the trash

I'm not sure I understand. The companies were nice and threw you in the trash? Perhaps you mean they were 'moral' in mission but bad employers?

Ultimately Google and Facebook are ad agencies (by profit). They need to pay a premium to attract workers because their mission is less attractive, although they dress it up by publicizing ancillary projects. If you go several steps farther, porn companies do the same.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#164

Post by modriano »

poopypoopington wrote: post #55
modriano wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wanted to make the case that Facebook is a net-good force in the world, I'd read that. But I haven't seen anyone even try to lay out evidence of Facebook doing any good things. I like pytorch, prophet, and their decent job policing the pedophiles on the FB platform, but what else do they do that's good and responsible?

connect and let 3 billion people communicate with each other every day help small businesses reach customers invest advance the SOTA in a lot of tech

Email connects 4 billion people and helps small businesses reach customers. And email manages to do this without starving local journalism, or algorithmically recommending extremist groups to susceptible people, or cause genocides, or release SOTA creepshot Ray-Bans, or feed COVID disinformation to my parents every day.

Pytorch is pretty neat, though.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#165

Post by na85 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #162
na85 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not only is it illegal to lie to Congress Only for the plebs. As James Clapper demonstrated, there is a separate set of laws for the elites.

> As James Clapper demonstrated, there is a separate set of laws for the elites. Surely, the banner example here id Brett Kavanaugh, whose lies in his Circuit Court confirmation hearing were punished with a seat on the Supreme Court.

Perhaps; I'm Canadian and have never heard of Kavanaugh.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#166

Post by BeetleB »

i_love_music wrote: post #17

Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to work. Sure, you can become a millionaire, but at what cost? Is this what you imagined you would do as a kid interested in math/computers/science?

> Is this what you imagined you would do as a kid interested in math/computers/science?

I work a job that I imagined I'd like as a kid.

Work is interesting, but it's a crappy job.

Of the jobs I've had, all the ones that aligned with my passion sucked. It's no longer a criterion when I look for jobs.

If you can find a job that aligns with your passion, and it's not a crappy job, by all means go for it! For many, they tire of hopping from job to job in search of satisfaction. Optimizing for money (or time) tends to be the next logical step.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#167

Post by dragonwriter »

errantmind wrote: post #163
snuser wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels off, before working at facebook I was unable to buy a house and wouldn't have been able to retire at 67 I've worked a for a lot of 'nicer' small companies and they pretty much threw me in the trash

I'm not sure I understand. The companies were nice and threw you in the trash? Perhaps you mean they were 'moral' in mission but bad employers? Ultimately Google and Facebook are ad agencies (by profit). They need to pay a premium to attract workers because their mission is less attractive, although they dress it up by publicizing ancillary projects. If you go several steps farther, porn companies do the same.

> Ultimately Google and Facebook are ad agencies. T

Now. They are a combination of advertising venues and ad placement agency. “Ad agencies” are the companies you hire to make ads.

Though Google branching out into using AI to generate ads probably isn't too far off.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#168

Post by BeetleB »

modriano wrote: post #45
discobot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some believe that facebook is a positive force in the world, despite being hated.

If someone wanted to make the case that Facebook is a net-good force in the world, I'd read that. But I haven't seen anyone even try to lay out evidence of Facebook doing any good things. I like pytorch, prophet, and their decent job policing the pedophiles on the FB platform, but what else do they do that's good and responsible?

I've never been a FB user.

Years ago, when FB was relatively new, I was very anti-FB, and would discourage everyone from using it due to privacy concerns.

Then a Sudanese friend was staying with me for a few days. He had spent years separated from his relatives who lived in multiple countries, as he was working odd jobs to save enough money for a degree. Through FB, he got to see his nephews and nieces be born and grow for a few years. The amount of joy it brought him was immeasurable.

I realized I was the asshole thinking I knew better than he. If it brought him this much joy, it definitely was worth the loss of privacy. Multiply that by millions.

Today, there may be viable alternatives, but there weren't in those days. At least none that his non-techie relatives could use. FB is what brought about the joy. Nothing else did, despite trying.

FB is a tool. Yes, there are plenty of problems with it, but they require mitigations - perhaps even legislation - not a shutdown. Killing FB, IG and Whatsapp really won't solve anything. Plenty of competitors will eat up the space. It's like saying "Marlboro is the market leader. Let's ban it."

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#169

Post by randycupertino »

jetrink wrote: post #66
apeace wrote: post #62

A parallel between Facebook and Big Tobacco had never occurred to me until I read this: > In a move straight out of big tobacco's playbook, Facebook downplayed the negative effects of its product and hid this research from the public and even from members of Congress who specifically asked for it What would our world be like if it were illegal to have a social media account until you were 21 years old? Interesting to…

I wonder if this happened, would teenagers would be upset or relieved? There's a This American Life episode[1] in which several teenage girls explain the complex etiquette of Instagram. It sounds stressful, it sounds exhausting, it sounds like a full time job. Right now, anyone who opts out also excludes themselves from a major aspect of school social life. 1. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/573/transcript

My nieces will instantly delete something they post if it doesn't get enough likes right away which seems so anxiety-inducing. :-/

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#170

Post by dr_dshiv »

burkaman wrote: post #91
dr_dshiv wrote: post #25

I'm concerned that this whole narrative implies that research is the problem. It feels like a continuation of when people were shocked, shocked when it was revealed that Facebook was conducting experiments on people . Well, the issue wasn't the A/B testing exactly, but rather the publishing of the experiments in scientific journals. As you know, public outrage put a stop to that. (The scientific publishing, not the A…

No, publishing research was not the issue, the issue was experimenting on people without their consent.

That was part of the journalistic fallacy. A/B testing is experimenting with people without their consent.

(And everyone agreed to the terms of service)

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