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United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

reuters.com

441–450 of 518 posts

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#441
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those horrible evangelicals and ... some other conservatives. Fukuyama chose a safe target. (Or not. I didn't listen to the speech.) "Time magazine's Joe Klein has suggested it is legitimate to look at the religion of neoconservatives. He does not say there was a conspiracy but says there is a case to be made for disproportionate influence of Jewish neoconservative figures in US foreign policy, and that several of th…

I know I'm invoking Godwin's Law here, but wasn't "The Jews pushed Germany to WW1 and broke the economy" one of Hitler's excuses/propaganda peices? What's the difference between this argument and hitler's?

There are none. Jews did it again to another country.

That's why our times will be called "Neo-Middleages". If you say truth, you are finished.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree that retirement accounts should be mandated by the government. If people won't save for retirement, they should understand that the government can't help them. This philosophy that the peon is too stupid and/or undisciplined to manage his own accounts and that the government must protect him from himself is what gets us into huge messes like this in the first place.

So what do we do with people at the end of their working years, who, through bad luck or bad design, ended up with nothing. Do we stand by and let them suffer and die?

[deleted]

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree that retirement accounts should be mandated by the government. If people won't save for retirement, they should understand that the government can't help them. This philosophy that the peon is too stupid and/or undisciplined to manage his own accounts and that the government must protect him from himself is what gets us into huge messes like this in the first place.

So what do we do with people at the end of their working years, who, through bad luck or bad design, ended up with nothing. Do we stand by and let them suffer and die?

[deleted]

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#444
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security shouldn't be cut, it should be turned into a purely social program (and grandfathered in at that too). Instead of being an entitlement program, it should become like welfare and enabled for the bottom X % of the population. Specifically, the burden for retirement for the middle class should be placed on individuals rather than government. For too long, babyboomers have relied on social security as a s…

You completely underestimate how the average person finds something more important to spend money on now rather than saving for their future. The reason we have social security is because people don't save what they need to. If you don't have this, most of the population will be in poverty when they retire. Social security also has things like survivor's benefits: payments to children and dependents who have lost a w…

"The reason we have social security is because people don't save what they need to."

Have a law forcing people to put the money into a conservative retirement plan of their choosing.

"I don't think the Social Security program is at all broken; what's broken is that we've used the Social Security surplus over the last 20+ years to help fund a general fund spending deficit."

Absolutely true. But we've also used that surplus to spend much more on current retirees than they ever put in.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trillions in debt is perfectly fine for an economy as large as America's. It's tens of trillions where you have a problem long-term. I agree that you should just run the short-term deficits. That said, if we have to cut short-term deficits (which I don't think is a wise strategy), it is significantly better to tax the rich than cut benefit programs. Finally on military, I'd feel it'd be a better use of resources to t…

>> Trillions in debt is perfectly fine for an economy as large as America's. No it's not. Wouldn't it be much better to not have to constantly pay billions to simply pay the debt's interest? We aren't even reducing the principal, which is why we have to keep raising the debt ceiling. That's like saying it's perfectly fine to maintain a large credit card debt because you have a high income. Just because you can handle…

The US pays a very low interest rate on its debt. If you made $250k per year had a 3% interest rate mortgage of $200k, would you pay it off any faster than you had to? Of course not. You'd spend the money on things that would give you a much better return.

There is absolutely no need for the US to pay down inflation. GDP growth will naturally reduce the effective value of the principal. The problem is the run-away increase in the debt over GDP ratio that we've been seeing.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#446
post #52

(Reference: http://www.federalbudget.com/ ) Steps to recovery: 1) End all offensive military actions overseas. Finish winding down Iraq and abandon Afghanistan wholesale. These actions have cost several trillion dollars over the last 10 years. We can't get that money back, but we can stop spending more. 2) Defense spending is in the top 3 highest budget expenditures. Cut it by 1 third across the board. Maintain impor…

This is a plan I could sign on to (for the most part), but as Winestock said, such a plan would never get support.

It is not a coincidence that Presidential elections are as close as they are. Politicians essentially buy votes to get elected, in the form of government programs.

The problem in this country is medical entitlements - not so much Social Security. Social Security in theory funds itself, although Social Security's funds have been raided to fund other programs which now jeopardize its future.

Politicians will not address medical entitlements, because they will lose too many votes in doing so. Ultimately it's these medical entitlements that will bankrupt our country, and in the process, cause the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the U.S. - not from the rich to the poor, but from the young, to the old.

Most people who support medical entitlements do so for "selfish" reasons, in that they want those entitlements to be available for themselves, their family, and/or their friends. They say things like "health care is a right," although it obviously is not a right. Health care is essentially the result of man's labor, and to say you have a right to health care, is to say you have a right to impose your needs on another man. Which of course is silly and inconsistent with the American constitution.

Still - people will assert their right to medical entitlements, and politicians will oblige, which in the long-run will pull money away from business investment (not all businesses are rich with billions in cash). The added financial burden will either stifle entrepreneurship and innovation, or it will send it oversees.

Of course, anyone who stands up against medical entitlements, like Paul Ryan, will be referred to as a villain who wants to murder old people. To quote the President: "throw grandma off the cliff."

That's my long-term prediction, anyway.

In the short-term we will continue to go through up and down cycles. Each down cycle will bring fear. Each up cycle will bring relief. There will be booms and busts in America's near-future, although the booms will be short-lived, and the busts (like our current bust) will be longer-lived.

To the extent innovators, like many of the people on HackerNews, are able to create great innovations, we can postpone the day of reckoning for our country.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this seems alarmist to me. Any automated system can make an exception. For your logic to hold these institutional investors would have to not take notice of the U.S. Government having its credit rating dropped. You're arguing they'd treat the United States and "any other investment" and rely on an automated system. That's not going to happen. Plus S&P's logic is shaky on this. The whole reason the threa…

I think they sending a clear message to the US government to get their financial house in order. The fact this has never happened (to either democratic or republican presidents in the history of the country) is a major issue. Imagine if we actually passed the balanced budget amendment back in 1997 - things would be a LOT different.

Is S&P in the business of politics (re: sending a message), or accurately stating whether the US would be able to pay its debts?

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#448
post #52

(Reference: http://www.federalbudget.com/ ) Steps to recovery: 1) End all offensive military actions overseas. Finish winding down Iraq and abandon Afghanistan wholesale. These actions have cost several trillion dollars over the last 10 years. We can't get that money back, but we can stop spending more. 2) Defense spending is in the top 3 highest budget expenditures. Cut it by 1 third across the board. Maintain impor…

@geius:

3) Health care: it is screwed up because of the economic model. A single payer system is much more efficient with the government overhead at 5% vs private at 20%. Allow the govt to negotiate drug prices. Currently it's prohibited by law. Streamline the FDA without losing effectiveness.

4) Social Security is in decent shape. Dont cut benefits. If necessary, raise the retirement age. That's a fair trade-off for improved health care.

+ Fix campaign financing to remove the "hidden" corruption that is distorting Congress. Roll back anti-trust a hundred years to the age of the trust-busters. Roll back Republican/Bush deregulation so that banks aren't too big to fail, so that Rupert Murdock doesnt own all news channels. Cone down hard on regulatory capture. (The govt gang that was watching BP should be in jail.)

Edit: Oh yeah taxes. Roll back the Bush tax cuts. My share of the tax cuts was $300 on a 6 figure income. At the time I wished Bush has gone for deficit reduction. The $300 made very little difference to me. Close the loopholes. The oil companies dont need subsidies.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#449
post #303
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and numerous families across the US depend on the active and guard pay of the armed forces. However, by bringing troops home, there are a number of secondary costs that can be reduced, or eliminated. For example, one of the more famous recently has been the discussion of AC in Afghanistan. Per the NPR article: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/25/137414737/among-the-costs-of-w... We are spending 20 billion a year to t…

The 20 billion a year air conditioning cost is marketing nonsense. Specifically, this number comes from someone selling energy-efficient tents to the Pentagon, and it's pretty clear they made up this number. At the very bottom of the article, the Pentagon states it spends $15 billion on energy for all military operations around the world (i.e. everything, not just air conditioning). This might be a good time to read…

Not taken that way. I expect the real number is somewhere between the 20 billion from this article, and the 1.5 billion the Pentagon responded with in their reply. 1.5 billion is probably the line item in the budget that says "tent AC", while different calculations assuming sundry costs can reach higher, and some of it probably is PR inflation.

The main point not being the specific final total, but rather that the cost, and other logistical costs like it, would be reduced or possibly eliminated if troops weren't in the field.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#450

Yeah, the US deserves a downgrade. What pisses me off is that my wife and I have savings, live within our means, and if you believe Harvard economist Kenneth Rogoff (which I do), there is going to be 5% to 10% yearly inflation for a good while that takes money from savers and basically gives it to debtors. I am actually sympathetic to some debt forgiveness - it is not the people in need that I am pissed off at. Anywa…

If you're expecting sustained inflation then don't hold debt. Take your cash and buy rental properties with the crazy-low mortgage rates we have now. If we get sustained inflation then rental rates will go up while your fixed-interest mortgage payments will stay the same. Profit.
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