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Facebook under fire over secret teen research

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#91

Post by burkaman »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #25

I'm concerned that this whole narrative implies that research is the problem. It feels like a continuation of when people were shocked, shocked when it was revealed that Facebook was conducting experiments on people . Well, the issue wasn't the A/B testing exactly, but rather the publishing of the experiments in scientific journals. As you know, public outrage put a stop to that. (The scientific publishing, not the A…

No, publishing research was not the issue, the issue was experimenting on people without their consent.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#92

Post by rcurry »

yzzytohr wrote: post #77
lostlogin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such a shame Facebook is considered a prestigious place to work. Is it? It’s not my industry but I haven’t got that impression from reading threads here.

The irony is not lost on me that HN decries social media for being one massive echo chamber and are just as detached from the real world themselves.

I’d argue against you here. I’d say that HN represents quite a diverse cross section of people, and to our mutual credit we all manage to keep it fairly cordial and fun. We all come from different backgrounds and experiences and yet find it fun and enjoyable to come here and talk about technology and have a good time. I may disagree with folks here from time to time, but I have no doubt that HN is a home for people from all walks of life and the last thing that comes to my mind, when thinking about HN, is that it’s an echo chamber. Quite the contrary, some of the folks here help me learn to think about things from a different perspective and I enjoy it.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#93

Post by zelphirkalt »

_ktx2 wrote: post #74
rozap wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a useful tool for hiring though. I wouldn't be able to hire anyone who worked there. At least at my current job, a functioning moral compass is required due to the impact our clients (governments) have on the general population. It's part of our interview process to figure out if someone cares about how their work effects people. Not that the pay scales overlap much anyway.

Applying morality to jobs is a pretty piss poor strategy. I'm a big fan of privacy, how many companies have employees that I cannot morally hire with your perspective? How can a Libertarian ever hire anyone who has served in a war? How can a religious person sell goods to all people in the community they serve? The thing about morals is that they're written by the individual, and meant to guide the individual. They'r…

> The thing about morals is that they're written by the individual, and meant to guide the individual.

And in doing so, guide the individual's decisions, which then affect society.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#94

Post by wwweston »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #41
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #10

This is more interesting (Instagram response to WSJ, linked to in the article): https://about.instagram.com/blog/announcements/using-researc... "We're increasingly focused on addressing negative social comparison and negative body image. One idea we think has promise is finding opportunities to jump in if we see people dwelling on certain types of content." "From our research, we're starting to understand the types o…

"We're cautiously optimistic that these nudges will help point people towards content that inspires and uplifts them, and to a larger extent, will shift the part of Instagram's culture that focuses on how people look." The term "nudge" could have multiple meanings. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_(instant_messaging) or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory In either case, given the modus operand…

> In either case, given the modus operandi of a "tech" company, its an encroachment on free will.

Given the nature of every medium ever includes some focus inherent in what creators make and curators highlight/disseminate, this seems like a bit of an overstatement.

The decisions of a film studio, book author, or magazine editor aren't an encroachment on my free will, I can always tune out and look for something else.

Heck with social media, no matter how it may nudge via the feed. I'm usually free to choose my own walk through individual profiles, groups, and pages on a scale that would have been hard to really understand a half century ago. If there is one thing that is not our problem, it's being nudged/herded into an oversmall number of options.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#95

Post by loeg »

sudosysgen wrote: post #83
renewiltord wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their machinery is ridiculously effective. My Uber driver the other day was Afghan. He talked to his family fleeing their country via Messenger. Ubiquitous universal communication. It is the stuff of utopian sci fi.

Lol, you're talking as if it's unique to Facebook. Anyone with money and a modicum of technical expertise can make a messaging platform. The hard part is monetization.

> Anyone with money and a modicum of technical expertise can make a messaging platform. The hard part is monetization.

Facebook has clearly cracked the monetization problem.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#96

Post by gordon_freeman »

here's the quick summary on Instagram internal research findings from this article:

A 2019 presentation slide said: "We make body-image issues worse for one in three teenage girls"

Another slide said teenagers blamed Instagram for increased levels of anxiety and depression

In 2020, research found 32% of teenage girls surveyed said when they felt bad about their bodies, Instagram made them feel worse

Some 13% of UK teenagers and 6% of US users surveyed traced a desire to kill themselves to Instagram

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#97

Post by pier25 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #80
apeace wrote: post #62

A parallel between Facebook and Big Tobacco had never occurred to me until I read this: > In a move straight out of big tobacco's playbook, Facebook downplayed the negative effects of its product and hid this research from the public and even from members of Congress who specifically asked for it What would our world be like if it were illegal to have a social media account until you were 21 years old? Interesting to…

I would expect to see it struck down by a Supreme Court ruling. You cannot just declare speech a new drug to get around the first ammendment. An 18+ law may past constitutional muster however.

It's not about speech per se but more similar to gambling.

Gambling is not banned for minors because they can't watch fruit icons and blinking lights.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#98

Post by koboll »

gordon_freeman wrote: post #96

here's the quick summary on Instagram internal research findings from this article: A 2019 presentation slide said: "We make body-image issues worse for one in three teenage girls" Another slide said teenagers blamed Instagram for increased levels of anxiety and depression In 2020, research found 32% of teenage girls surveyed said when they felt bad about their bodies, Instagram made them feel worse Some 13% of UK te…

Okay. I mean, that's bad, obviously. But is there any evidence this is something intrinsic to Instagram as a platform, rather than the general practice of posting photos on social media? If Instagram didn't exist, surely teens would still be doing it, just somewhere else.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#99

Post by sudosysgen »

loeg wrote: post #95
sudosysgen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, you're talking as if it's unique to Facebook. Anyone with money and a modicum of technical expertise can make a messaging platform. The hard part is monetization.

> Anyone with money and a modicum of technical expertise can make a messaging platform. The hard part is monetization. Facebook has clearly cracked the monetization problem.

Yes, in a way that cause this quagmire.

Anyways, the post I replied to was talking about the machinery, not the monetization.

Re: Facebook under fire over secret teen research

#100

Post by williamtrask »

discobot wrote: post #65
colinmhayes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHy is that good? Seems like it just leads to 13% of teenagers just wanting to kill themselves.

Why is anything good objectively? It is good for me because I can stay connected with my mom despite living in different country. Also facebook group for my town is nice and useful, and my wife enjoys posting in instagram from our trips. Now multiply this by several billions.

All these things existed before facebook
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