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GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

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Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#151

Post by mercutio2 »

mabbo wrote: post #79
taurath wrote: post #51

My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. GM, Ford, and Chrysler haven’t been building good vehicles in my lifetime - once I switched to Hondas I’ve yet to have any serious engine trouble even in some very old vehicles, whereas every American car I’ve owned has been a money sink. Of course…

> My perception of American designed and engineered vehicles is that they’re really awful, not just from a reliability standpoint but also from a user interface standpoint. For about 18 months in 2017 and 2018, I had a job that had me in a new city every other week. Lot of rental cars. And I started to have very strong preference. I would go out of my way to get a Chevy. Great Android auto integration. Good controls…

I own a Bolt. I loathe GM's software. With a flaming passion. Like, I will never buy another GM vehicle.

The infotainment system crashes about once a week. It will come back in 10 minutes or so, but nothing I've done has ever managed to make it decide to reboot faster than that.

The radio turns on. All the time. Over and over again. I literally never want the radio on. I only want CarPlay to ever play audio. GM seems to think any time anything changes in the car's state "oh look, now seems like a good opportunity to turn on the radio!". When the radio turns on, its volume is 10-20 notches louder than it was when playing CarPlay audio, so not only does it do a thing I don't want dozens of times a week, it does it much too loud.

It would be truly sweet if I could sell it back, but I doubt the buyback option is actually a particularly good deal financially.

The "it's an EV and it drives like a car with great range" part is really nice, though.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#152

Post by api »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #72
weaksauce wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

might want to put it into context though... there are on average 160,000 passenger car fires per year and about 360 deaths due to that. i'd like to see that figure broken down per 100k miles driven or per 100k cars of the type but i can't seem to find that easily. https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires

How many of those are with the car off and at rest ?

I would much rather my car catch on fire when I am not in it.

Well I’d really prefer it not catch on fire at all but you get the idea…

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#153

Post by MrFoof »

ineedasername wrote: post #136
weaksauce wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

might want to put it into context though... there are on average 160,000 passenger car fires per year and about 360 deaths due to that. i'd like to see that figure broken down per 100k miles driven or per 100k cars of the type but i can't seem to find that easily. https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires

Yes, but an important part of that context is that electric car fires also burn longer and hotter and take significantly more effort to put out. Too little water can actually make the fire worse. Annecdotally, my recollection from other articles is that electric cars do in fact catch on fire less often. But it also seems like they may be more difficult to deal with. This may change as EV's become more mainstream & fi…

Yep. Moreover, the issue isn't new cars today.

You know when you saw that old Chrysler Grand Caravan burning on the side of the road, and you hear the story that the person has been holding it together solely with thoughts and prayers and maybe $500 between tires and oil for the last 7 years of its 19 year life?

That's the current inevitability. I'm not worried about someone's 6-month old Bolt or 2-year old Model 3. The issue is when we're eventually talking about a 22-year old Model 3 that's had 13 years of deferred maintenance, is totally clapped out, and is only on the road because someone paid some mechanic off to look the other way during a state vehicle inspection for the past 5 years.

Germany is starting to standardize on towing an electric car away to dunk it in a tank to ultimately handle fires.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#154

Post by rootusrootus »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #72
weaksauce wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

might want to put it into context though... there are on average 160,000 passenger car fires per year and about 360 deaths due to that. i'd like to see that figure broken down per 100k miles driven or per 100k cars of the type but i can't seem to find that easily. https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires

How many of those are with the car off and at rest ?

There have been a couple of big recalls in the not-to-distant past for ICE vehicles spontaneously combusting. They have electric components too, which can short out and start a fire.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#155

Post by wffurr »

adamredwoods wrote: post #92
Animats wrote: post #42

Maybe lithium-ion batteries in mass-market vehicles aren't such a good idea. We may need a battery technology that can survive poor maintenance less than perfect battery construction, and low-cost vehicle designs. Tesla had to put a titanium plate under their battery. That's not a mass-market solution. BYD is converting over to lithium iron phosphate, which is much better behaved when damaged. Toyota is working on so…

CATL sodium batteries, maybe in 2023: https://qz.com/2041051/chinas-catl-unveils-sodium-ion-batter...

Sodium reacts explosively with water.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#156

Post by rootusrootus »

api wrote: post #130
Animats wrote: post #42

Maybe lithium-ion batteries in mass-market vehicles aren't such a good idea. We may need a battery technology that can survive poor maintenance less than perfect battery construction, and low-cost vehicle designs. Tesla had to put a titanium plate under their battery. That's not a mass-market solution. BYD is converting over to lithium iron phosphate, which is much better behaved when damaged. Toyota is working on so…

Gasoline fires happen all the time. They just don’t get press. No method of packing enough energy in a car for hundreds of miles of range is going to be perfectly safe. Stored energy is stored energy and any material with that much really wants to party. It does seem that the Bolt has an issue. I’m glad I opted for the 62kWh Leaf for an affordable EV and so far I think there has only ever been one Leaf fire. It happe…

> The Bolt has slightly more range but overall the Leaf is better.

I'm curious how you determined this? Everything I've seen suggests the Bolt is better in most ways, and overall. Excluding the current minor risk of fire, of course.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#157

Post by Johnny555 »

tshaddox wrote: post #47
qbasic_forever wrote: post #17

So what is a family with a two car garage supposed to do, park the Bolt a block away? This seems like the kind of thing GM should get wayyyy in front of with a very generous offer to buy back the cars as a trade towards another GM model.

If a Bolt owner without a permanent garage spot can manage, then certainly a Bolt owner with a permanent garage spot can manage. The latter has strictly more options than the former.

I have an attached 2 car garage and I don't think I have more "50 foot away from other cars" options than someone without a garage. I could have managed to park the Bolt outside since I could just park it in my driveway, but I couldn't manage to park it 50 feet from another car since my driveway is not 50 feet long, so I'd have to park on the street, and I couldn't park on the street and prevent someone else from parking within 50 feet. The 50 foot restriction leaves out renting a space in a parking lot too, unless I'm willing to rent out all the spots in a 50 foot radius.

I could probably rent a spot from some rural farmer, but it's going to be a hard sell "Hey, I have a car that could burst into flames at any time, is it ok if I park it in your dry grassy field?"

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#159

Post by Johnny555 »

travisporter wrote: post #104
HarryHirsch wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who live in an HOA may have a different experience, but if you chose to live somewhere HOA-encumbered, that's on you!

Yeah or because an insane housing market prices you out of a single family home

You can also own a single family home that's encumbered by HOA restrictions -- many neighborhoods here have HOA's.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#160

Post by ineedasername »

sailingparrot wrote: post #147
ineedasername wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but an important part of that context is that electric car fires also burn longer and hotter and take significantly more effort to put out. Too little water can actually make the fire worse. Annecdotally, my recollection from other articles is that electric cars do in fact catch on fire less often. But it also seems like they may be more difficult to deal with. This may change as EV's become more mainstream & fi…

> For the time being, rare or not, they post a much larger problem to deal with when they do occur. It seems to me that being harder to put off but occurring less frequently, and most importantly not exploding (leaving significant amount of time for occupants to get out, if they are able) is a pretty good trade off.

It could be a good trade off, it depends on more details though. Do electric car fires flame up faster, giving passengers less time to exit the car? What about toxic fumes emanating from the burning batteries? Since they they burn hotter and for much longer, are they more likely to damage surrounding infrastructure, like a bridge, before being extinguished?

I don't know the answer to these questions. They could all be "no". But before judging the trade off those are important factors to understand.

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