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GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

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Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#131

Post by Alupis »

cptskippy wrote: post #126
Alupis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But only when you fudge the numbers by including FSD. I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default. FSD is nearly all Musk talks about. In fact, I'd argue it's Tesla fudging the numbers by breaking FSD out into a separate line item, just so they can advertise a cheaper car knowing full well people expect to have FSD for that price.

> I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default. I mean even if there weren't data showing that as completely untrue... https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/tesla-survey-take-rate-full-s... ... then why would Tesla bother to offer FSD as a subscription service if everyone is buying it?

Well, I stand corrected. My guess is the sticker price shocks people into not choosing it then. Most people I've spoken with equate Tesla with self driving...

It's notable the FSD survey had a peak in 2019 - perhaps 2020+ is impacted by covid related things (reduction of income, etc). Or, perhaps it's being influence by monthly stories of Tesla's driving into parked objects and the like.

Still, it was a tactic to break FSD into a separate line item so marketing could tell everyone the cars were cheaper than assumed.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#132

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #109
gameswithgo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of lithium ion fire is very obvious and real. But to decide if this is a problem relative to the current alternatives (gasoline) we would need to compare the rates and severity of fires between the two. Gasoline cars also have complicated parts to help mitigate their fire risk.

I’ve never heard of a gas tank spontaneously bursting into flames.

[deleted]

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#133

Post by runawaybottle »

colechristensen wrote: post #98
sjg007 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how electric cars are any different than mobile phones. So basically this means a 3 year life span in terms of battery performance. Regular combustion cars though also suffer reduced mpg so I am not saying this is an apples to apples comparison.

While nobody will come out and say it, I’m convinced based on some extensive early career battery system engineering and various evidence from tesla that what they do is put in much more raw capacity than they sell you and then limit with software the capacity of the battery. Early in the life of the battery this leads to slowed degredation and as the battery agrees the software uses more and more of the raw capacity…

Wouldn’t this be extremely easy to find out with a battery tear down/test?

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#134

Post by deelowe »

pengaru wrote: post #32
deelowe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have limited the charge from the beginning. No way the engineers didn’t realize deep cycling is bad for the battery.

> They should have limited the charge from the beginning. No way the engineers didn’t realize deep cycling is bad for the battery. Have you even read up on the manufacturing faults behind this? It's a cell manufacturing robot alignment problem that went unnoticed, not a deep cycling problem.

Thanks for the correction.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#136

Post by ineedasername »

weaksauce wrote: post #60
Animats wrote: post #42

Maybe lithium-ion batteries in mass-market vehicles aren't such a good idea. We may need a battery technology that can survive poor maintenance less than perfect battery construction, and low-cost vehicle designs. Tesla had to put a titanium plate under their battery. That's not a mass-market solution. BYD is converting over to lithium iron phosphate, which is much better behaved when damaged. Toyota is working on so…

might want to put it into context though... there are on average 160,000 passenger car fires per year and about 360 deaths due to that. i'd like to see that figure broken down per 100k miles driven or per 100k cars of the type but i can't seem to find that easily. https://www.nfpa.org/vehiclefires

Yes, but an important part of that context is that electric car fires also burn longer and hotter and take significantly more effort to put out. Too little water can actually make the fire worse.

Annecdotally, my recollection from other articles is that electric cars do in fact catch on fire less often. But it also seems like they may be more difficult to deal with. This may change as EV's become more mainstream & fire departments adapt: Graphite may be effective in putting out these fires, and maybe it will become a common tool in fire departments.

For the time being, rare or not, they post a much larger problem to deal with when they do occur.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#137

Post by tialaramex »

sbierwagen wrote: post #117
OJFord wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually relevant though, or just an implementation detail? Perhaps you could argue a moving car seems more potentially hazardous? But then that's only learned from extant behaviour anyway?

A car being driven is guaranteed to have a person behind the wheel. (For now...) A electric car in an attached garage spontaneously bursting into flame at 2 am is a recipe for burning a house to the ground.

In the former case there's definitely a person inside the thing that's on fire, and in the latter case there almost definitely isn't a person inside the thing (I guess once in a while somebody sleeps in their car but this isn't recommended) and that seems like a much safer situation.

Houses are replaceable, that's why people have insurance.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#138

Post by manwe150 »

My dad has always tried to park 50 feet away from other cars anyways, for as long as I've known him (he's protective of his car). Since this wouldn't affect his habits, maybe I could get him one from GM on a steep discount now? And yes, I am only joking.

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#139

Post by amznthrwaway »

philwelch wrote: post #109
gameswithgo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of lithium ion fire is very obvious and real. But to decide if this is a problem relative to the current alternatives (gasoline) we would need to compare the rates and severity of fires between the two. Gasoline cars also have complicated parts to help mitigate their fire risk.

I’ve never heard of a gas tank spontaneously bursting into flames.

It’s trivial to find examples of cars bursting into flames.

https://abc7chicago.com/bmw-car-fires-vehicle-what-causes-pe...

Re: GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

#140

Post by reitzensteinm »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41
ksm1717 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price and panel gaps

My Model Y, delivered within the last few weeks, has no panel gaps (edit: the panel gaps, measured with an $8 tool at delivery, are within spec). It was delivered in perfect condition and is garage safe. I can even park next to other cars safely.

I test drove a M3P six months ago in Melbourne, and the panel gap quality of the two cars in the showroom was absolutely awful. I couldn't believe it. They were the refreshed model with the chrome delete, too.

Then my friend bought one, and it was as good as any other new car I've seen. It looked great.

I found that quite strange. Is it a roll of the dice based on where and when they're made, or would the demo models have come from a pool that were rejected for sale somehow?

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