Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

interestingengineering.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 196 posts

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#181

Post by pandaman »

mrguyorama wrote: post #175
pandaman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for cars, though. There is probably a market for tire monitoring in mining equipment, which is probably not constructed with the same built-in systems that consumer cars have.

You are incorrect. Most modern cars have TPMS to tell you when a tire is losing air. There are two ways to do it. Either you use the same signals ABS uses to tell how fast each wheel is spinning and look at the tire which spins at a different speed. The other way is to have actual pressure sensors inline with the valves that wirelessly communicate with a system in the car. This method has the upside of allowing you t…

I am not sure if you replied to the correct message but I did mention that modern cars have TPMS. If you are actually arguing against my description of the principles this system works on (monitoring the wheel shape through the rotation speed) then perhaps you should have not posted a link to sensors for such a system. I somehow don't see how a passive device can monitor any pressure least communicate wirelessly. But even if such system existed it would still have been mounted in the wheel, not in the tire on modern cars.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#182

Post by chromaton »

clairity wrote: post #165
mcguire wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen them quite a bit lately on commercial lawn mowers. Of course, there, puncture resistance trumps vehicle control and ride comfort by a large margin.

i would love to see this or a similar technology for electric scooters. the tubes seem to reliably pop every dozen or so rides, and the current alternative solid/no-flat tires really compromise on ride quality and handling. larger wheels (they're usually in the 7-9" range) would help too, but there's probably a practical limit to how big the wheels can be, perhaps 12-15" without too much compromise (motor power and e…

I was impressed by the Slime brand bike tire tubes. They're thicker rubber than the stock tubes and pre-filled with Slime self-sealing compound.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#183

Post by IIsi50MHz »

pandaman wrote: post #181
mrguyorama wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are incorrect. Most modern cars have TPMS to tell you when a tire is losing air. There are two ways to do it. Either you use the same signals ABS uses to tell how fast each wheel is spinning and look at the tire which spins at a different speed. The other way is to have actual pressure sensors inline with the valves that wirelessly communicate with a system in the car. This method has the upside of allowing you t…

I am not sure if you replied to the correct message but I did mention that modern cars have TPMS. If you are actually arguing against my description of the principles this system works on (monitoring the wheel shape through the rotation speed) then perhaps you should have not posted a link to sensors for such a system. I somehow don't see how a passive device can monitor any pressure least communicate wirelessly. But…

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you're saying that tire pressure sensors are not mounted in tires of common cars. This may be true in EU and other places where I think monitoring rotation rate of each wheel is typical; in USA, as far as I can tell, most tire pressure monitors are indeed wireless devices mounted inside the tires in connection with the valve stem. This is the case with my car, which is an American variant.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#184

Post by dylan604 »

mcguire wrote: post #161
jagger27 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common for aircraft and other heavy duty equipment's tires to be retreaded. Seems like a reasonable thing to do on passenger vehicles if it can be scaled.

Something like 45% of commercial tires are retreads and something like 90% of large fleets use retreads ( https://www.worktruckonline.com/10128897/last-miles-growing-... , https://www.tirereview.com/revisiting-consumer-retreads/ ). On the other hand, I'm not sure about retreading tires with higher speed ratings.

yeah, that feels about right for all of the swerving required to avoid running over the retreads that have let go and now lay in the middle of the highways.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#185

Post by pandaman »

IIsi50MHz wrote: post #183
pandaman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if you replied to the correct message but I did mention that modern cars have TPMS. If you are actually arguing against my description of the principles this system works on (monitoring the wheel shape through the rotation speed) then perhaps you should have not posted a link to sensors for such a system. I somehow don't see how a passive device can monitor any pressure least communicate wirelessly. But…

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you're saying that tire pressure sensors are not mounted in tires of common cars. This may be true in EU and other places where I think monitoring rotation rate of each wheel is typical; in USA, as far as I can tell, most tire pressure monitors are indeed wireless devices mounted inside the tires in connection with the valve stem. This is the case with my car, which is an American…

I am in the USA, all cars I have seen here have valve stem in the wheels (rims). What kind of car you have that has valves in the tire?

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#186

Post by Stratoscope »

jrgaston wrote: post #141
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #124

I wonder about ride quality. My car had runflats when I bought it, when it was time for new tires, I went with some high quality all seasons. My ride quality improved, my gas mileage went up and they brake / corner better. The risk of an unplugable flat is a small price to pay for that.

Run flat tires are expensive, heavy, and hard riding. On the other hand, they don't go flat. I recently had a flat in my VW and I missed having my old Mini's run flats. Sometimes you just aren't in a place where you want to change a tire.

I've always had conventional tires, but when my Kia Rondo was due for new ones a few years ago, my tire guy suggested the Bridgestone DriveGuard. I was skeptical because of everything I'd heard about run flats, but he said these were a big improvement. And he was right! They feel just like conventional tires.

Maybe a bit harder ride, but I had been in the habit of inflating my old tires 2-3 pounds more than the manufacturer recommendation. So I brought these back down to the recommended 32psi and they are just fine. And they proved their worth when I got to a job interview on time even after getting a flat - and when I went to the tire shop it was a free repair instead of a new tire.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#187

Post by m463 »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #85
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Connected: Reports tread status and configuration, e.g. to inform the driver that he should change to a winter tire tread. That sounds like everything that's terrible about printer ink but with the decimal moved once to the right. I can imagine a world where your tires stop working because you had them re-treaded with a tread pattern or the OEM won't honor a warranty item because you didn't use an approved brand of…

Your printer running out of ink does not have an associated risk of death and injury. Tire wear does. Existing air-filled tires are already "connected" on modern vehicles - pressure sensors that link to the vehicle's on-board diagnostics and inform the driver of low pressure, often before there's any other visible, audible, or mechanical indication that the tire has a leak.

"Your printer running out of ink does not have an associated risk of death and injury."

I'm sure the printer manufacturers can remove some hardware interlocks to make using manufacturer ink safety-critical.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#188

Post by kazinator »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #179
kazinator wrote: post #174

> Puncture-proof tires have been an intriguing concept for many years. Tire maker, Michelin, has been working on it since 2005 and after more than a decade of work, it is now closer to reality. That is false. Tires like this are nothing hew; they have been around for over 100 years. They are useful in niche applications, like earth-moving machinery and whatnot. Other than that, airless tires are rubbish and will not…

I have airless tires on my bicycle. They are slightly firmer than regular tires, but the trade-off for knowing I will literally never get a puncture is more than worth it. They are not “rubbish”.

Short of obviously poor quality components, materials and builds, almost nothing is objectively rubbish in cycling, because cycling is about experimentation and personal choices, which can be all over the place.

A lot of cycling is recreational and light commuting, and so performance factors do not matter.

Airless tires are certainly right for someone who abhors punctures and wants to avoid them at all costs. Factors like efficiency, weight or ride quality don't necessarily matter his or her use case, or even if they somewhat do, they are overridden by the abhorrence of having to pull off to the side and deal with a flat.

Yet, even though cycling is the one sphere where airless tires could have a chance, is is overwhelmingly dominated by pneumatics, just like motorism.

I don't think you will see anyone place well in a road cycling competition, if they bring airless tires. But, well, so what? A lot of the bicycle tech is driven from the top down by the competitive sport; and maybe that results in certain technical choices being promulgated at the entry retail level that are not necessarily relevant to every user.

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#189

Post by biftek »

arbitrage wrote: post #121
chapium wrote: post #60

Another great way to improve the environment is biking for trips below 5-10 miles. This carbon offset would do laps around car ownership.

In mountainous locations, that is not an option.

Bicycles now have these things called gears which make it possible to ride in the mountains

Re: Michelin's airless tires are scheduled for market launch in 2024

#190

Post by verve_rat »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #55
sparsely wrote: post #25

There have been a number of reports of components of rubber tiers being harmful to humans[1] or the broader environment[2] beyond the waste issue, would be interesting to know if these manage to improve on that. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/11/pollutin... [2] https://www.opb.org/article/2020/12/04/scientists-point-to-c...

If it's biodegradable, that would help. Only what remains of the tires ends up in landfills/recycled. The rest is a major contributor to microplastics in our oceans. The tires don't just erode into nothing. Those particles (mixed with particles from the road service) become dust that ends up in sewers when it rains, which drain to rivers, which drain to oceans. By the time the tire is used up, we're talking a sizable…

I don't really see how that is possible, biodegradable tires sounds like a really bad idea.

I guess you could look for a material that becomes biodegradable after wearing down. Does anything like that exist in any form at the moment?

Post reply on HN