Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

ons.gov.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 171 posts

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#91

Post by twoslide »

rkk3 wrote: post #47
twoslide wrote: post #6

There is a bit of a statistical artifact here: the number of person-days of people with both doses in the UK is very small during this period. Most adults had no doses or one dose for most of this period. Vaccination is still great and I encourage everyone who can to get vaccinated, but the 640 people is drawing upon a much smaller population and time period.

You are mis interpreting the data, there were 640 Covid deaths among those who received both doses, not 640 participants. There were also 68,733 Non Covid deaths among that cohort. Not to mention everyone who didn't die.

I'm definitely not saying there are 640 participants, just that the size is unknown. Non-Covid deaths is a poor proxy of the population size, as that population is older because of how the vaccination programme worked. I don't think I'm making an interpretation, just pointing out the unknown

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#92

Post by LurkingPenguin »

spookthesunset wrote: post #82
bedhead wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

Linked is a fascinating dataset showing exactly what you are talking about. The average american thinks if they get covid, their odds of dying from it around 10%. In younger age brackets this is almost 1000x wrong. People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid. This makes it almost impossible to have rational, grounded discussion of public policy. If everybody is walking around thinking covid is…

> People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid.

This seems to be by design though.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#93

Post by [deleted] »

b3nji wrote: post #88
kmclean wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your analysis doesn't account for the fact that the majority of double vaccinated people are also at far higher risk of covid to begin with. There was an interesting article about this (Simpson's Paradox, as it's known in the world of data analysis) recently: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... -- the overall trend is reversed when the data are grouped properly. The preponderance o…

Propaganda is simply information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. How else would you explain the fact they used old data? Incompetence? Its clear the vaccines don't prevent much, you still catch, spread, and die from covid after being fully jabbed. This is what the report shows, and unfortunately been seen by myself through frien…

[deleted]

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#94

Post by _-david-_ »

some_furry wrote: post #30
human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

Everyone needs vaccination. Full stop. I wrote more about this topic here: https://soatok.blog/2021/05/10/why-i-chose-to-be-vaccinated-... Some real-world data: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143741231155210240... A Twitter thread from a scientist and vaccine researcher: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143814553785796199...

Young males perhaps shouldn't be vaccinated since they are more likely to have a side effect than covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#95

Post by LurkingPenguin »

tehwebguy wrote: post #90
spookthesunset wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linked is a fascinating dataset showing exactly what you are talking about. The average american thinks if they get covid, their odds of dying from it around 10%. In younger age brackets this is almost 1000x wrong. People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid. This makes it almost impossible to have rational, grounded discussion of public policy. If everybody is walking around thinking covid is…

Line of reasoning doesn't seem to account for ICU occupancy levels & reduces outcomes to simply "lived" vs "died" without looking at sub-outcomes under "lived" category.

You're right. There is more nuance. For instance, many of the concerns about "long COVID" are legitimate.

But even within the nuance the statistics are being used to support narratives that aren't always honest. Just look at the news that apparently 40-45% of COVID hospitalizations are actually people who were admitted for another reason and just so happened to test positive upon admission.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos...

This data changes the hospitalization narrative quite a bit.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#96

Post by wing-_-nuts »

NDizzle wrote: post #85
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #77

This study looks at deaths. The death rate for someone with two doses of the vaccine is ~ 1%. I do wonder though, what's my risk of having serious symptoms in a breakthrough case? I know it's lower, but is it 10%? 5%? I have no idea.

Death rate from covid, or death rate from heart problems and blood clots in their lungs? As someone (aged 42 years) with grandfathers on both sides that died from heart issues in their late 40s, early 50s, the side effects of the vaccines are more worrisome to me than the virus itself. I'm preparing myself to be excluded from society and yet I've already had covid and recovered from it, because that's not an acceptab…

You do realize the 'bloodclots' issue was with the astrozenica (sp?) vaccine, that was never approved here, and it was with only a handful of cases in women? Your risk of a second, more severe case of covid is *massively* higher than the risk of serious side effects from the vaccine.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#97

Post by mullingitover »

kklisura wrote: post #53

> 61.1% of breakthrough deaths occurred in males, which is higher than for other deaths involving COVID-19 and non-COVID-19 deaths > Breakthrough deaths > Male 154 (61.1%) > Female 98 (38.9%) Do we still know why are men disproportionately affected by covid?

Estrogen and ACE2 expression might be factors[1]:

> Intriguingly, infection with SARS-CoV induces ACE2 down-regulation through binding of the viral Spike protein to ACE2, thus reducing ACE2 expression in the lung and igniting acute respiratory failure. Since COVID-19 and SARS patients share similar acute respiratory distress syndrome and a similar gender bias in disease susceptibility and case fatality rates, it is reasonable to believe that they share similar pathogenic mechanisms.

> Estrogen, the primary female sex hormone, has been observed to play a protective role in SARS not only by activating immune response but also suppressing directly SARS-CoV replication. To note, estrogen inhibits the activity or expression of different components of the renin–angiotensin system. In particular, estrogen is able to upregulate the expression of ACE2.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41420-020-0276-1

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#98

Post by nradov »

barbazoo wrote: post #89
bedhead wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

> kids are at no risk, the overwhelming majority of adults are at no risk What I've been looking for for a long time now is data on infection, hospitalization rates and mortality by vaccination status and age. They all get mixed and it's never really clear to me what the risk for, say, a vaccinated 40 year old or an unvaccinated 1 year old really is.

The CDC estimated an infection fatality rate of 0.001% for ages 0-17. The risk rises exponentially with age.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Of those children who died, the majority had serious underlying health conditions such as obesity or asthma.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7023e1.htm

This paper has some good recent data on vaccine effectiveness.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2108891

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#99

Post by sto_hristo »

bedhead wrote: post #68
rkk3 wrote: post #2

Deaths 21 days or more after second dose: .89% Percent of all Covid Deaths That seems like great news?

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

Dear Facebook Karen,

What is ironic is how people like you talk with such confidence and self-assurance, but don't know the meaning and can't use simple words like endemic.

Kids from 4th grade know more stuff about viruses, the immune system, and what vaccines are supposed to do. But those kids actually went to biology class and opened a real textbook. Textbooks. Not facebook posts. Difference of mere 4 letters, but with such significance.

And even though those 4th graders are surely big fans of sci-fi like Star Wars, they sure as hell aren't so clueless to expect vaccines to create force fields around people that stop particles.

In the age of unlimited information and internet, being stupid is not an option - it's a medical condition. Society may tolerate you, but natural selection won't.

Yours, Me

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#100

Post by nradov »

howlong wrote: post #33
almost_usual wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality only matters to you. Hospitalization matters to everyone.

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736... This study suggests about 0.5% of unvaccinated population requires hospitalization. Obviously just one study, but across about six million people, seems a decent back of the envelope guess.

So far about 2% of the US population had already been hospitalized with COVID-19 as of May 2021. The total is even higher now.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Post reply on HN