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Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

ons.gov.uk

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Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#81

Post by jollybean »

lmilcin wrote: post #55
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #52

This data needs to be framed against the % of the population that was vaccinated at the time they contracted the virus, right? Otherwise, for all we know, the vaccine could actually increase mortality if the % vaccinated was smaller than the % of deaths that group represents. I'm assuming that isn't the case but hard to make meaningful conclusions about efficacy without that context. The apparent efficacy of vaccinat…

> This data needs to be framed against the % of the population that was vaccinated at the time they contracted the virus, right? No, it does not. It compares chance of you dying to covid compared to all other possible causes. This dimensionless number does not depend on relative population sizes. So if in one population you get 458 deaths from Covid compared to 57,263 from all other causes and in the other population…

The problem with this generalization is that the vaxxed/unvaxxed populations are ultimately very different.

Vaxxed group is older, unvaxxed are younger.

i.e. groups are not randomly distributed.

They are going to have different risk factors and die of different things.

This showed up in British Columbia's health data that showed infections and hospitalizations way, way down for the vaxxed relative to unvaxxed, but the ratio between the two for actual deaths was not as extreme, because vaccinated population skewed older, more vulnerable, more likely to die even when fully vaxxed.

Should note that age-standardized mortality rates are included in the study.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#82

Post by spookthesunset »

bedhead wrote: post #68
rkk3 wrote: post #2

Deaths 21 days or more after second dose: .89% Percent of all Covid Deaths That seems like great news?

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

Linked is a fascinating dataset showing exactly what you are talking about. The average american thinks if they get covid, their odds of dying from it around 10%. In younger age brackets this is almost 1000x wrong.

People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid. This makes it almost impossible to have rational, grounded discussion of public policy. If everybody is walking around thinking covid is a death sentence, of course they will beg of all the crap we are doing right now.

https://covid19pulse.usc.edu/

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#83

Post by kmclean »

b3nji wrote: post #62

This data is out of date. The cut off is July 2nd, it doesn't take into account delta, or the fact not a high amount of people were vaccinated at that point. The most up to date data comes from Public Health England. Public Health England published a report last week which gave us this data for the period of August 9th to September 5th. It shows that of 2,381 deaths in this period, 1,659 or 69.7%, more than two third…

I think your analysis doesn't account for the fact that the majority of double vaccinated people are also at far higher risk of covid to begin with. There was an interesting article about this (Simpson's Paradox, as it's known in the world of data analysis) recently: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... -- the overall trend is reversed when the data are grouped properly.

The preponderance of evidence shows that the covid vaccines are overwhelmingly effective and safe for the vast majority of people. Your alarmism and calling Government vaccination campaigns propaganda is contributing to the spread of an incurable but now preventable disease that is killing thousands of people daily and you should feel bad about that. You are a menace to society.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#84

Post by nradov »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

I doubt you will find that one number anywhere. The CDC estimated a mortality rate of 0.06% for the 18-49 age group, but that doesn't account for health status.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Of those deaths, many had pre-existing conditions such as cancer, heart failure, obesity, and diabetes which drastically increased their risks. You'll have to do your own calculations on how that impacts your expected mortality rate.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

I encourage healthy adults to get vaccinated because the personal benefits outweigh the risks, and it can help reduce load on the healthcare system.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#85

Post by NDizzle »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #77

This study looks at deaths. The death rate for someone with two doses of the vaccine is ~ 1%. I do wonder though, what's my risk of having serious symptoms in a breakthrough case? I know it's lower, but is it 10%? 5%? I have no idea.

Death rate from covid, or death rate from heart problems and blood clots in their lungs?

As someone (aged 42 years) with grandfathers on both sides that died from heart issues in their late 40s, early 50s, the side effects of the vaccines are more worrisome to me than the virus itself. I'm preparing myself to be excluded from society and yet I've already had covid and recovered from it, because that's not an acceptable form of prevention.

Oh well, back to my hillbilly roots I guess.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#86

Post by nradov »

b3nji wrote: post #62

This data is out of date. The cut off is July 2nd, it doesn't take into account delta, or the fact not a high amount of people were vaccinated at that point. The most up to date data comes from Public Health England. Public Health England published a report last week which gave us this data for the period of August 9th to September 5th. It shows that of 2,381 deaths in this period, 1,659 or 69.7%, more than two third…

Seatbelts are highly effective at preventing car crash deaths, but if everyone wears seatbelts then 100% of people who die in car crashes will be seatbelt users.

It was always expected that vaccination would be less effective in elderly patients. Some research is underway now to see if that can be improved by administering rapalogs.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#87

Post by NDizzle »

stri8ted wrote: post #17
tosser1f5a9b78 wrote: post #7

We need to see cardiac events in the vaccinated cohort. I know or know of a dozen since April.

Would need to see this compared to cardiac events in unvaxed group, given Covid seems to cause many of those same symptoms. Comparing it to baseline levels from pre-covid, would be disingenuous.

Like big pharma will allow a control group to exist for this stuff... they still have immunity from anything that happens as a result of vaccines, right? Are you asking why yet, at this point?

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#88

Post by b3nji »

kmclean wrote: post #83
b3nji wrote: post #62

This data is out of date. The cut off is July 2nd, it doesn't take into account delta, or the fact not a high amount of people were vaccinated at that point. The most up to date data comes from Public Health England. Public Health England published a report last week which gave us this data for the period of August 9th to September 5th. It shows that of 2,381 deaths in this period, 1,659 or 69.7%, more than two third…

I think your analysis doesn't account for the fact that the majority of double vaccinated people are also at far higher risk of covid to begin with. There was an interesting article about this (Simpson's Paradox, as it's known in the world of data analysis) recently: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... -- the overall trend is reversed when the data are grouped properly. The preponderance o…

Propaganda is simply information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

How else would you explain the fact they used old data? Incompetence?

Its clear the vaccines don't prevent much, you still catch, spread, and die from covid after being fully jabbed. This is what the report shows, and unfortunately been seen by myself through friends, and family.

Could calling people a menace to society do damage to a society simply because they are showing other points to your own?

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#89

Post by barbazoo »

bedhead wrote: post #68
rkk3 wrote: post #2

Deaths 21 days or more after second dose: .89% Percent of all Covid Deaths That seems like great news?

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

> kids are at no risk, the overwhelming majority of adults are at no risk

What I've been looking for for a long time now is data on infection, hospitalization rates and mortality by vaccination status and age. They all get mixed and it's never really clear to me what the risk for, say, a vaccinated 40 year old or an unvaccinated 1 year old really is.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#90

Post by tehwebguy »

spookthesunset wrote: post #82
bedhead wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facts like these don't matter to the COVID-obsessed. Turns out that screaming 24/7 for 18 months at people they're going to die messes with their cognitive abilities. Go figure! And here I thought doing this would keep us calm and rational. We basically have a best-case scenario today and an awful lot of people don't care and still think it's doomsday. Vaccines are fantastic at reducing COVID to a cold, kids are at n…

Linked is a fascinating dataset showing exactly what you are talking about. The average american thinks if they get covid, their odds of dying from it around 10%. In younger age brackets this is almost 1000x wrong. People are very, very badly misinformed about their risks for covid. This makes it almost impossible to have rational, grounded discussion of public policy. If everybody is walking around thinking covid is…

Line of reasoning doesn't seem to account for ICU occupancy levels & reduces outcomes to simply "lived" vs "died" without looking at sub-outcomes under "lived" category.
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