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Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

ons.gov.uk

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Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#21

Post by twofornone »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

Same here. None of the data feels quite transparent. There seems to be a major taboo around supposing that beyond the R0 value which tends to overwhelm local hospitals during outbreaks, covid is actually not a serious concern for the vast, vast majority of And I recently discovered that the reporting of overwhelmed hospitals is somewhat misleading as well, as in the US hospitals typically operate at 80-90% capacity for financial reasons, especially ICU wings which are expensive to upkeep on standby. So when the news reports that hospitals $CITY are overwhelmed, that's can be as little as ≈10% increase in patients.

If anything good comes of covid, hopefully we can see some effort to improve surge capacity in the US, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#22

Post by newbamboo »

trollied wrote: post #5

I'm looking forward to a 3rd vaccine dose if it's offered! The UK govt are looking to offer a Pfizer bosster, regardless of 1st & 2nd dose vaccine types. Mixing looks very effective.

Yes. For those at risk, a booster seems like an excellent idea. Hopefully there aren’t any downsides to widespread rollout. Downsides being ade or the increase in vaccine evasive variants. For the latter of those I am more concerned about waning efficacy than a booster, but who knows. It’s all one big messy experiment.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#23

Post by lambdaba »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

There is a big problem with groups based solely by age; in truth, if you are metabolically unhealthy, either by diagnosis or have a suspicion you might be (if you're living a typical western lifestyle, chances are you are - 88% of american adults are metabolically unhealthy, look it up), and unwilling to make the necessary lifestyle changes, there is a possibility that vaccination might benefit you, but even there there is a spectrum, with factors increasing such as taking medication, being chronically stressed/depressed, not sleeping well, etc.

All in all, what I wanted to say is that the message to the masses is intentionally or not simplified, and it hides the nuances that everyone should apply to themselves. In my case, I have made drastic changes to better my health after a diagnosis of severe autoimmune illness more than a decade ago, and today am in much better health than I was then, so I have no benefit to expect from taking the vaccine.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#24

Post by vajrabum »

salynchnew wrote: post #12
tosser1f5a9b78 wrote: post #7

We need to see cardiac events in the vaccinated cohort. I know or know of a dozen since April.

Your anecdote is the most interesting statistic I've read here. I am going to call the CDC and ask them to investigate this immediately. That's really what we should be focusing on. A dozen deaths, not 38,000. /s

Not to mention at this point zero evidence there's any connection between those alleged deaths and any vaccine. After all, it's a regular thing for people to die of heart disease.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#25

Post by lmilcin »

trollied wrote: post #5

I'm looking forward to a 3rd vaccine dose if it's offered! The UK govt are looking to offer a Pfizer bosster, regardless of 1st & 2nd dose vaccine types. Mixing looks very effective.

I am looking forward to get everybody else vaccinated before I am getting 3rd dose.

Any dose is best spent vaccinating an unvaccinated person, even if looking from a purely selfish point of view of already vaccinated population.

There is also still a lot of people that can't get the vaccine in less developed countries.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#26

Post by cortesoft »

Claudus wrote: post #20
allturtles wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a particularly interesting stat without a baseline of what % of people fell into that category. Since this is computed over the time period January 2 to July 2 and mass vaccination didn't really take off until the spring, you wouldn't have a large number of people in that category until near the end of the study period.

Yes, what is the the overall mortality rate for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Ballpark estimates looking at the vaccination rate over time, it seems like vaccinated people had almost double the mortality rate of unvaccinated. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations Vaccinated are less likely to die of Covid-19, but more likely to die? Not very reassuring.

Depends on the demographics of who gets vaccinated and who doesn't. If the elderly get vaccinated at a higher rate, it seems normal that vaccinated people would have a higher non-covid mortality rate.

It is also not surprising if healthy people are less likely to get vaccinated.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#27

Post by lambdaba »

jdminhbg wrote: post #16
human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

That one number can't exist, because there is no one definition of "healthy."

There is, especially related to Covid: metabolic health (see https://www.unc.edu/posts/2018/11/28/only-12-percent-of-amer...), which of course correlates to immune system health. There is only one definition of physical health, and that is the proper functioning of one's bodily processes, with the functioning of the immune system as the centerpiece.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#28

Post by tomp »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

IFR (infection fatality rate) is estimated to be 0.07% for younger than 50.

Two sources:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00698-1...

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#29

Post by meragrin_ »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

Sure, THAT group may not need it to survive a covid infection, but it is not just about surviving a covid infection. It is about reducing covid in general so we can get closer to normal sooner.

Re: Deaths involving Covid-19 by vaccination status, England

#30

Post by some_furry »

human wrote: post #9

I have been looking for one number. Maybe someone can help me. What is the mortality rate for unvaxxed healthy adults between the age of 18 and 50? I can’t help but be dubious that this group needs vaccination.

Everyone needs vaccination. Full stop. I wrote more about this topic here: https://soatok.blog/2021/05/10/why-i-chose-to-be-vaccinated-...

Some real-world data: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143741231155210240...

A Twitter thread from a scientist and vaccine researcher: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143814553785796199...

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