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EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

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Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#41

Post by wb14123 »

I never really understand the hype behind blockchain related technologies. The low transaction throughput, high compute resource demands makes it pretty unusable in most cases. Lots of workaround either has security problem or violated the idea of decentralization of blockchain, which makes it meaningless to use blockchain. Oh, there is also PoS which doesn't need CPU for mining, but doesn't anyone think it's irony that it makes rich people richer?

Decentralization doesn't mean there shouldn't be one or some centralized nodes. That means open protocol, and server cannot control everything (for example, with end to end encryption). So that anyone can run the server, and user can use the service without trust the server.

Most importantly, non regulation doesn't always mean good. Otherwise why we need law and government? Why not live in the wild west and let strong people kill weak people? Why not let big company play the monopoly?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#42

Post by opatdchan »

esperent wrote: post #32
opatdchan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? Previous generation dapps were mostly on Ethereum because it was the only real solution available. But the ecosystem is maturing, there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of…

>there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of them Can you give some examples? How far along is the development?

I'll speak for myself, as I just finished developing a fully functional dapp on the Polygon blockchain. Transactions are usually confirmed <30s (not fantastic, but acceptable) and cost less than $0.0001 worth of gas each. There are also other solutions which may work better for certain dapps. For example there is Arbitrum, which has much higher gas costs but instantaneous confirmation times. Regardless, the ecosystem is moving fast, improvements are always coming soon™ and new solutions are popping up all the time. But what's right here, right now is already good enough to be usable.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#43

Post by natural219 »

drKarl wrote: post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

You absolutely don't need some crypto-based financial scheme to run decentralized web applications. Just some kind of open standard & a set of motivations and incentives to keep the system running and improving.

American ideas of decentralization tend to make the root assumption that financial incentives are the only thing that drive human motivation, so almost every decentralization project gets "blockchained" eventually, at which point progress on the core standards or applications gets halted because the attention, focus, and energy shifts to figuring out the myriad, predictable problems with adding "operate a global financial system" to your JIRA tickets.

I don't really know any way out of this bottleneck for Americans; they're simply too obsessed with complicated financial schemes to make clear progress on usable dApps.

I have slightly more hope for Europeans; if you notice the Matrix project has been chugging along for years, with millions of users, and is poised to actually compete with big tech products via traditional funding and company operation, like normal people.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#44

Post by atatatat »

Shadonototra wrote: post #25
netcan wrote: post #22

One thing "The EU" can do is provide demand. If they want to promote ethereum, IPFS, or WebRTC... use them for their activities in an open way. One real difficulty here is the ability of open systems people to communicate, lobby, advocate with governments. The reps, staffers and ministerial professionals aren't that numerous, specialized or inventive... usually. They basically work off ideas, prototype plans and such…

promote ethereum? you mean promote speculators with tax payer money? so they can sell their ETH and make ton of profit? remove ethereum from your post, and i 100% agree with you the fact that you included ethereum alongside IPFS and WebRTC is very suspicious i don't believe in "decentralized web" if people wants it solely to make profit from 'trading' aka speculating "decentralized coins" with fiat currency before an…

Is it REALLY speculation that humanity needs a digital way to make microtransactions? (e.g. to replace ads)

And other new types of payment?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#45

Post by dusted »

How is the web not already decentralized? everyone's got an IP address and is free to plug in a server at home.. If the EU should do anything, it should be require by law that any Internet connection comes with a non-carrier-gade-natted ip address, and that it can be made static if the customer desires, for free.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#46

Post by jitix »

dusted wrote: post #45

How is the web not already decentralized? everyone's got an IP address and is free to plug in a server at home.. If the EU should do anything, it should be require by law that any Internet connection comes with a non-carrier-gade-natted ip address, and that it can be made static if the customer desires, for free.

This! Legislating for network infrastructure upgrades and IPv6 adoption will go a long way towards decentralization.

The market will produce a bunch of privacy focused “Facebook in a box” kind of products on top of such infrastructure.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#48

Post by dylkil »

dusted wrote: post #45

How is the web not already decentralized? everyone's got an IP address and is free to plug in a server at home.. If the EU should do anything, it should be require by law that any Internet connection comes with a non-carrier-gade-natted ip address, and that it can be made static if the customer desires, for free.

This is funding for developer tools for building decentralised services

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#49

Post by magila »

dusted wrote: post #45

How is the web not already decentralized? everyone's got an IP address and is free to plug in a server at home.. If the EU should do anything, it should be require by law that any Internet connection comes with a non-carrier-gade-natted ip address, and that it can be made static if the customer desires, for free.

The web as a whole is decentralized, but the HTTP URL scheme can only reference assets through a single authoritative hostname (or IP address). Thus the ability to retrieve a particular asset is always beholden to a single, privledged entity. When people talk about the "decentralized web" they are generally talking about combining a means of referencing assets in a self-authenticating manner (e.g. using cryptographic hashes and signatures) with a way a retrieving those assets which does not rely on a privledged authority (e.g. using a DHT and a P2P transfer protocol).

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#50

Post by Kbelicius »

wisethrowaway1 wrote: post #7
wisethrowaway1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin! Devtools! How about lowering taxes? Have they ever considered aligning with the rest of the world to make it easier to do business, or they pretend to succeed being approximately the most hostile region for businesses?

Will they do something about the fact that when YC (to put a very random example) invests, they ask the recipient to move to US as EU regulatory environment is extremely hostile to startups?

What part of the EU regulatory environment is extremely hostile to startup? I really don't know but if I had to guess my guess would be worker rights and regulators that are unwilling to let startups enter whatever industry doing whatever they want while disregarding established rules. Happy to be corrected.
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