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Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

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Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#181

Post by smoldesu »

atatatat wrote: post #172
yummypaint wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the plaintiffs luck in court. I remember apples courtroom privateering where they persuaded the justice system they invented rounded corners and got their competitors phones pulled from the market. If only the same standards and rigor of enforcement could actually apply to them. Once all is said and done I suspect whatever apple has to pay will not meaningfully impact their profitability, and will be seen as a…

Larger discussion: Is this what being a hacker is now? Knowing your project is going to get stomped out with uncompetitive practices from day 1, still doing and carrying it all the the way through to court with a big player?

25 years ago, that was still the hacker ethos. Linux stood no chance against the commercial operating systems of the day, and Microsoft was in the process of accretion to a similar position Apple is in today. Yet, against all odds, David sprouted wings and Goliath kneeled.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#182

Post by post_break »

cainxinth wrote: post #138
slig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The phenomenon of Apple releasing a feature that supplants or obviates third-party software is so well known that being Sherlocked has become an accepted term used within the Mac and iOS developer community" TIL.

I think “Fluxxed” would have been a better term. Really captures the spirit of the thing.

Flux actively came out and said if their feature was added to iOS they would be happy.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#183

Post by defaultname »

NKosmatos wrote: post #16

Very typical of Apple, using opaque approval procedures. They're acting like bullies because they didn't get what they wanted and because they have the money/power to do so. Apple wanted to buy FlickType but they didn't agree on the price or Eleftheriou didn't want to sell (I doubt it), and so from then onwards started the downhill ride. I fully support Eleftheriou on this just for the principle, but if I were in his…

The original issues with the app weren't opaque at all: Keyboard utilities can't have network access. Then he noted that it can operate without it, but the entitlement can't even exist for any users, even optionally. That is very clearcut.

At least without the App Store reviewers crawling all over everything you do, putting an enormous level of scrutiny over everything you do. And the functionality has to justify it (not that it should operate without it, but with it has to validate why -- is it using some massive cloud resource to guess your next word, etc?)

That he ever got away with it was during confusion over keyboards on the watch where they weren't officially sanctioned and thus policed.

But otherwise he's engaged in building features for someone else's platform. Eventually those features get first party inclusion. This is the surest thing in this industry, and people comparing it to sherlock, etc -- ridiculous. Apple made a larger Apple watch so they decided it's time for a keyboard. That this guy is trying to claim some sort of moral/intellectual ownership over keyboards and/or swype typing is ridiculous, and it's the sort of overreach that is usually criticized viciously on HN.

And if Apple truly made an offer to "buy" his keyboard, it was certainly just to settle bad blood. The likely outcome would have been that they toss his solution and then do exactly what they did, which is build their own.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#184

Post by Terretta »

jacquesm wrote: post #158
Terretta wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> walled garden argument A watch is now a walled garden? Does Casio have to open its OS? Either these are not general computing devices or there's no line, a fridge or microwave or a console are general computing as well -- and device makers have no rights to make a product from digital parts as well as mechanical parts without having to make it open to digital fiddling, and secure it dragging in that new threat mode…

If you gatekeep applications on your device then it's a walled garden. Simple, no?

No.

Half Life was not a walled garden before opening up to modders, and was not a walled garden after. It was just a game opened to modders.

If we get over ourselves, and allow that there's new category of thing, devices made of mechanical and digital parts both, that the maker may or may not selectively open for mods as a legitimate part of their business model they're within their rights to choose, then we'd be less religiously militant in ways that harm innovation and consumers.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#185

Post by pwinnski »

windexh8er wrote: post #176
Razengan wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why has there never been a horde of torches and pitchforks outside Castle Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo yet? And don’t squeeze out that “cOnSoLeS aReNt cOmPuTeRs” bullshit. They’re closer to computers than a goddamn wristwatch.

It's a good point, but consoles were single purpose computers. They exist to play games. Now, I'll agree that the line is blurred these days, but they're still generally gaming machines. Nobody is buying an XBox to stream Netflix solely. I think the difference is that Apple wants people to buy these devices as your primary computing device. Are you OK when Apple locks down the Mac line? What if you couldn't use Brew…

You're talking about Macs. This thread is about watches.

I'm struggling to see any argument about watches that doesn't apply at least as much to game consoles.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#186

Post by system16 »

Bud wrote: post #121
tiffanyh wrote: post #92

I thought the reason why iOS blocked both SMS apps and Keyboard apps is because they wanted to ensure rogue app developers aren't invading your privacy and/or spamming (e.g. key loggers or sending SMS you didn't compose).

Yes. Because it was. And it was, and remains, a good reason. I get why the developer might be ticked, in this case, but I still think it's a stretch to speak of "cloning" a very very basic QWERTY keyboard, and the breathtakingly-original concept of putting a keyboard onto a touchscreen. /s As if that is some kind of grand-scale theft of intellectual property. Please.

That dismissive argument could be used for virtually any app on the App Store. Developers are limited in nature by the APIs Apple expose, so there is very little chance of anything breathtakingly original appearing on the platform.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#187

Post by mikehearn »

> A separate version for the Apple Watch would remain, but then Apple pulled that one as well, telling Eleftheriou that keyboards aren’t allowed on the Apple Watch.

This is wrong, as far as I can tell. The watch app is still in the App Store.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/flicktype-watch-keyboard/id135...

I just installed it and verified that it works, although the Watch keyboard itself is hidden behind a $10 in-app purchase.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#188

Post by modo_mario »

luxuryballs wrote: post #178

This is dumb I still think the high barrier of entry is good for the App Store. Let Apple call the shots, let the developers who are concerned focus on a different platform if they become that worried that developing for Apple devices is high risk, if it reaches a fever pitch Apple will adjust, if not then it’s probably not a big enough problem. Unlike in healthcare I think it’s reasonable in this environment to sacr…

>let the developers who are concerned focus on a different platform if they become that worried that developing for Apple devices is high risk

So basically don't develop for half of the market and then if google uses similar anticompetitive tools (as they have) just don't develop at all.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#189

Post by jacquesm »

Terretta wrote: post #184
jacquesm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you gatekeep applications on your device then it's a walled garden. Simple, no?

No. Half Life was not a walled garden before opening up to modders, and was not a walled garden after. It was just a game opened to modders. If we get over ourselves, and allow that there's new category of thing, devices made of mechanical and digital parts both, that the maker may or may not selectively open for mods as a legitimate part of their business model they're within their rights to choose, then we'd be les…

Half Life is not a device, modders are not application programmers targeting that device.

Re: Apple blocked the FlickType Watch keyboard then announced a clone of it

#190

Post by stonemetal12 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #115
jdavis703 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally I’m not sure the small developer has a chance. Not because the courts are unjust, it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here. It’s not to say they didn’t, it just doesn’t seem like there’s any slam dunk legal argument about wrongdoing (despite who this might feel morally).

>it’s just hard to say whether Apple broke any laws here Doesn't stealing someone's idea for an app/innovation and respinning it into your own implementation count as IP theft? IIRC the Winklevoss twins got paid handsomely as a settlement for Zuckerberg stealing their idea for Facebook. Granted, they were very rich and well connected so that helped.

>count as IP theft?

No, there is no such thing as IP theft. There is theft, copyright infringement, trademark infringement, and patent infringement.

Also there is Monopoly\anti-competitive behavior law, which this seems an obvious violation of.

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