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EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

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Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#21

Post by xondono »

netcan wrote: post #16
wisethrowaway1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin! Devtools! How about lowering taxes? Have they ever considered aligning with the rest of the world to make it easier to do business, or they pretend to succeed being approximately the most hostile region for businesses?

Please relax. You don't have to leave your politics out of it, but you can't just start slinging it around belligerently. Stick to context. Be polite.

Belligerently? He is just rising a point.

Government “innovation” subsidies move a lot of money into shinny “new” ideas, but in EU there’s no thought about how to create innovation itself.

Just as an example, a friend of mine roasts coffee for a living. He is considering closing shop, because he is succeeding too much. At the point he is, he’ll be required to register as a business, which in Spain means he will have to pay ~300$ a month whether he makes money or not, plus 20% VAT and 20% in income taxes. Add to it the massive amount of time he’ll have to spend in paperwork (or paying someone another 100$/mo for handling it). Another good side job that will go to waste, instead of growing into a company. And it’s by no means an exception. I’ve work for tens of companies here, all of them have admitted to be flunking regulations intentionally to avoid costs during their creation to be able to exist.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#22

Post by netcan »

One thing "The EU" can do is provide demand. If they want to promote ethereum, IPFS, or WebRTC... use them for their activities in an open way.

One real difficulty here is the ability of open systems people to communicate, lobby, advocate with governments. The reps, staffers and ministerial professionals aren't that numerous, specialized or inventive... usually. They basically work off ideas, prototype plans and such that are provided by (usually corporate) industry bodies and such.

Even sympathetic politicians or public servants don't have much to go on. An Australian Shadow Secretary for rural development can pull a bold, $1bn infrastructure plan straight off the shelf in his parliamentary library and start talking it up the next day. It'll typically come with a booklet explaining the main ideas, easy to find allies/advocates. Etc. The "Decentralized Web" section is a sparse mess.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#23

Post by imglorp »

superkuh wrote: post #20
imglorp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IPFS [...] relies mostly on centralizing gateways to actually let people access content No, IPFS does not need gateways: they are conveniences for people that don't have ipfs:// support in their browser or run a local daemon. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipfs-companion/nib... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ipfs-companio... https://brave.com/ipfs-support

That's exactly what I said. I don't appreciate you twisting my words to make a point. No one has IPFS support. I have some IRC friends that are big in to it and they always link the gateways because no one can access their content otherwise.

Yeah, but not no one. It's native in Brave and Opera Touch now.

At some point those ^ extensions should be folded into mainstream browsers unless Big Content pushes against it.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#24

Post by yann2 »

superkuh wrote: post #11

It's disappointing to see this project, like many other decentralized web projects, has tunnel vision with respect to "cool technologies". The real distributed web is not non-web protocols, blockchains, or the like. The real distributed web is THE WEB HTTP servers and every single individual running their own web server to host their content (and then syndicate on whatever walled gardens are most profitable after). C…

Its not easy at all. Try it out with your family on your LAN.

People are used to so much convenience, its easy to brush under the carpet, just how much work is happening behind the scenes. Just coming up with a basic list of 3 mordern conveniences you want to support for your family will be non trivial.

In fact, just try supporting one.

(Worked as an RA in a distributed systems lab back in the day, and just getting everyone who proposed the algos and systems to use them was a nightmare)

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#25

Post by Shadonototra »

netcan wrote: post #22

One thing "The EU" can do is provide demand. If they want to promote ethereum, IPFS, or WebRTC... use them for their activities in an open way. One real difficulty here is the ability of open systems people to communicate, lobby, advocate with governments. The reps, staffers and ministerial professionals aren't that numerous, specialized or inventive... usually. They basically work off ideas, prototype plans and such…

promote ethereum?

you mean promote speculators with tax payer money? so they can sell their ETH and make ton of profit?

remove ethereum from your post, and i 100% agree with you

the fact that you included ethereum alongside IPFS and WebRTC is very suspicious

i don't believe in "decentralized web" if people wants it solely to make profit from 'trading' aka speculating "decentralized coins" with fiat currency

before any decentralization, there should be a global transparency act

so before doing anything, one should be able to know what your portfolio consist of, to prevent any form of conflict of interest

and even that i'm not sure that'll be enough to move forward

if it's to repeat what we lived, there is no reason to lie to ourself into pretending things will change for the better

why do you want a "decentralized web"? to maximize your profits? yeah no thanks

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#26

Post by zoobab »

notimetorelax wrote: post #9
zoobab wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new chip foundry entirely paid with tax payers money, and where the profits will go to a private corporation? (the 'socialize losses, privatize profits') https://twitter.com/EIF4eu/status/1438041794940395523 "The @EU_Commission announced a new European Chips Act, in order to jointly create a state-of-the-art European #chip ecosystem including production."

At this point with chip shortages it’s in EU’s interest to attract businesses to build it. Even if it costs us to build it, overall we’ll benefit from it. How much is lost due to stopped Audi plants?

"attract businesses to build it"

I am wondering how that will work with the current "state aid" framework.

The current crisis is an opportunity to empty the public coffins, full of state aids everywhere, especially to large corporations, and send the bill afterwards to the people that have to pick up the bill. No thank you.

As for cars, we don't need those chips, cars were fine before without all those useless electronics.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#27

Post by throwaway739 »

xondono wrote: post #21
netcan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please relax. You don't have to leave your politics out of it, but you can't just start slinging it around belligerently. Stick to context. Be polite.

Belligerently? He is just rising a point. Government “innovation” subsidies move a lot of money into shinny “new” ideas, but in EU there’s no thought about how to create innovation itself. Just as an example, a friend of mine roasts coffee for a living. He is considering closing shop, because he is succeeding too much. At the point he is, he’ll be required to register as a business, which in Spain means he will have…

Do you realize you are saying that companies shouldn't pay any taxes?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#28

Post by throwaway59553 »

zoobab wrote: post #6
wisethrowaway1 wrote: post #3

How will bureaucrats burn the next few billions of taxpayer money? * spins roulette *

A new chip foundry entirely paid with tax payers money, and where the profits will go to a private corporation? (the 'socialize losses, privatize profits') https://twitter.com/EIF4eu/status/1438041794940395523 "The @EU_Commission announced a new European Chips Act, in order to jointly create a state-of-the-art European #chip ecosystem including production."

It's either a private firm that will keep all the profits, instead of sharing a part, as if paying a loan or royalties, beyond paying wages for the created jobs, or a bunch of University teachers that have no clue about managing a company.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#29

Post by throwaway59553 »

zoobab wrote: post #26
notimetorelax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point with chip shortages it’s in EU’s interest to attract businesses to build it. Even if it costs us to build it, overall we’ll benefit from it. How much is lost due to stopped Audi plants?

"attract businesses to build it" I am wondering how that will work with the current "state aid" framework. The current crisis is an opportunity to empty the public coffins, full of state aids everywhere, especially to large corporations, and send the bill afterwards to the people that have to pick up the bill. No thank you. As for cars, we don't need those chips, cars were fine before without all those useless electr…

>As for cars, we don't need those chips, cars were fine before without all those useless electronics. But how will they make sure you need to have your car checked every 12 months and bill you for some vague "electronic component"?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#30

Post by opatdchan »

drKarl wrote: post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

>But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum?

Previous generation dapps were mostly on Ethereum because it was the only real solution available. But the ecosystem is maturing, there are chains that consume so little gas it's effectively a negligible cost, and more and more dapps are making use of them. Not to mention that Eth 2.0 is coming soon™.

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