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EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

httptoolkit.tech

11–20 of 109 posts

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#11
It's disappointing to see this project, like many other decentralized web projects, has tunnel vision with respect to "cool technologies". The real distributed web is not non-web protocols, blockchains, or the like. The real distributed web is THE WEB HTTP servers and every single individual running their own web server to host their content (and then syndicate on whatever walled gardens are most profitable after).

Connections are fast enough. Computers are fast enough. Self hosting is entirely viable and it cuts the gordian knot that is the content moderation problem. If it's a static HTTP site then there are almost no attack surfaces; it's magnitudes safer than running JS from an arbitrary site in your browser.

These non-web protocols do not dencentralize. Lets start with IPFS. It's a great idea but unfortunately, like other security/anonymization layers, it relies mostly on centralizing gateways to actually let people access content. Additionally it is design to disassociate people from their files. Not a great start.

WebRTC is just the sickness of modern browser and in-browser "app" architectures causing them to re-implement what already exists in the host OS. But this time in the browser, the most insecure piece of third party code running software there is.

And blockchains like etherium aren't even worth talking about until they actually do switch over to proof of stake like they've been talking about for the last decade and never doing. And even then it directly involves monetary transactions which is sure to make thing suck for everyone.

No, the decentralized web is the decentalized web. And it's easy to be a part of it.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#12

Of all the institutions to promote a uncensorable web it is the EU?! Talking about Gaslighting. Who knows, it could be a gentle attempt at keeping talent from leaving, or FOMO because every other important nation is doing crypto-stuff and lastly, and naturally, the sheer incompetence of this overextended bureaucracy where one tentacle doesn't know what the other tentacles want to ban

> the sheer incompetence of this overextended bureaucracy where one tentacle doesn't know what the other tentacles want to ban

Tell me, which Murdoch newspaper have you been binging on?

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#13
IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum?

I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things like SSB (Secure Scuttlebutt, based on the gossip protocol) but the biggest ecosystem of DApps is based on Ethereum and requires gas...

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#14
post #6

How will bureaucrats burn the next few billions of taxpayer money? * spins roulette *

A new chip foundry entirely paid with tax payers money, and where the profits will go to a private corporation? (the 'socialize losses, privatize profits') https://twitter.com/EIF4eu/status/1438041794940395523 "The @EU_Commission announced a new European Chips Act, in order to jointly create a state-of-the-art European #chip ecosystem including production."

The EU Commission is desperate to find niches where it becomes an essential dealmaker.

To their dismay, after 50 years of trying hard, they are still an irrelevant institution economically, a net negative for businesses and individuals.

The chip industry will and can sort their issues perfectly on it's own. In fact one of the top chipmakers is already European, and they are doing extremely well, they don't need any political help.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#15

It's disappointing to see this project, like many other decentralized web projects, has tunnel vision with respect to "cool technologies". The real distributed web is not non-web protocols, blockchains, or the like. The real distributed web is THE WEB HTTP servers and every single individual running their own web server to host their content (and then syndicate on whatever walled gardens are most profitable after). C…

> IPFS [...] relies mostly on centralizing gateways to actually let people access content

No, IPFS does not need gateways: they are conveniences for people that don't have ipfs:// support in their browser or run a local daemon.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipfs-companion/nib...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ipfs-companio...

https://brave.com/ipfs-support

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#16

How will bureaucrats burn the next few billions of taxpayer money? * spins roulette *

Bitcoin! Devtools! How about lowering taxes? Have they ever considered aligning with the rest of the world to make it easier to do business, or they pretend to succeed being approximately the most hostile region for businesses?

Please relax. You don't have to leave your politics out of it, but you can't just start slinging it around belligerently. Stick to context. Be polite.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#17

Of all the institutions to promote a uncensorable web it is the EU?! Talking about Gaslighting. Who knows, it could be a gentle attempt at keeping talent from leaving, or FOMO because every other important nation is doing crypto-stuff and lastly, and naturally, the sheer incompetence of this overextended bureaucracy where one tentacle doesn't know what the other tentacles want to ban

The EU is not a monolith, there are many groups within it pushing different ideas. Some of them tech-friendly, some of them not. From my layman's perspective though it seems as though national governments who want to implement unpopular tech policy will often try to push it through the EU first because then they can deflect the criticism. Overall though I'd say the EU has been okay at preventing the most extreme anti-tech legislation, although it usually requires public scrutiny/outcry to make them drop it

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#18

How will bureaucrats burn the next few billions of taxpayer money? * spins roulette *

Among all the things the EU waste money on this is not even in the Top 1000 of things that should not be done.

Fundamental research into next generation technology that is also open source seems like the exact kind of thing governments should be doing.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#19
post #13

IPFS is pretty awesome, and the ideas it builds upon like a Merkle tree DAG are really cool. I love the idea of DApps or Decentralized apps. I've played with some cool projects like MetaMask etc. But I really don't like the idea that all (most?) DApps are based on Ethereum and require huge amounts of Gas to run. Can't we have DApps without Blockchain/Ethereum? I know IPFS doesn't use Ethereum, and neither do things l…

It is hard to get away from a gas based system because of spam and resource limitations.

Regarding the expensiveness there are a lot of new technologies rolling out today such as optimistic rollups(arbitrum/optimism) and zkrollups(dydx,zksync) that allow for cheaper dapps to run. Then there is also things like Avalanche or Solana that are completely separate chains with different decentralization trade offs that allow for cheaper transactions. The space is still going through rapid advancement and experimentation.

Re: EU Funding for Developer Tools for the Decentralized Web

#20
post #15

It's disappointing to see this project, like many other decentralized web projects, has tunnel vision with respect to "cool technologies". The real distributed web is not non-web protocols, blockchains, or the like. The real distributed web is THE WEB HTTP servers and every single individual running their own web server to host their content (and then syndicate on whatever walled gardens are most profitable after). C…

> IPFS [...] relies mostly on centralizing gateways to actually let people access content No, IPFS does not need gateways: they are conveniences for people that don't have ipfs:// support in their browser or run a local daemon. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ipfs-companion/nib... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ipfs-companio... https://brave.com/ipfs-support

That's exactly what I said. I don't appreciate you twisting my words to make a point. No one has IPFS support. I have some IRC friends that are big in to it and they always link the gateways because no one can access their content otherwise.
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