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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#891

Post by cfn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #780
ixacto wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

Obesity tends to kill people before they get old enough to incur real costs in medical care. It's like cigarette smoking, it actually saves the healthcare system money and resources because smoking tends to kill people before they get very old. Also, I can't catch obesity by simply sharing the same room with someone who is obese like I can with COVID.

And your chance of catching COVID from an unvaccinated person is, apparently (no real studies to prove or disprove yet that I know of) not very different from a vaccinated person.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#892

Post by isolli »

walterbell wrote: post #481
isolli wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that antibodies don’t tell the whole story. They may wane after a while, but the immune system is primed to fight off the virus at the next infection thanks to memory B cells and T cells. Unfortunately, T-cell tests are not available in Europe, and apparently not reliable in the US. Which confirms the original point: there seems to be little interest in detecting previous infections.

> apparently not reliable in the US Which T-cell test(s) are you referencing? What are the rates of false negatives or false positives?

Good question. I wrote "apparently" because I don't know much about T-cell tests. I would be happy for any information on the topic.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#893

Post by d1a2n »

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical procedure to satisfy either contemptible neurotics, pharma shareholders, or the government. Freedom is the freedom to say "fuck you", and I don't need to justify why, though with the facts as they currently stand, it's about the easiest thing in the world. Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#894

Post by arc-in-space »

soperj wrote: post #537
ghiculescu wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If hospitals didn’t overflow and society didn’t crumble for most of 2020 (when there was 0% vaccination), it’s odd to argue that it will now that there is 65% vaccination.

they did, and they are now. Society didn't crumble because of extreme monetary policy measures.

What prevented the societal breakdown in countries that didn't do nearly as much QE yet had their hospitals hit equally or worse?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#895

Post by mschuster91 »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

> I will never get an unnecessary medical procedure to satisfy either contemptible neurotics, pharma shareholders, or the government.

One man's freedom ends where another man's begins. By not getting vaccinated against coronavirus, you are endangering yourself (which, while fine from a personal freedom point of view, still leaves society in form of either the taxpayer or your health insurance on the hook for the treatment cost should you die from it) and you are endangering others who are legitimately unable to get vaccinated (children And the more people get infected, the more overwhelmed hospitals get with COVID cases (especially given that the delta mutant is both more infections and more likely to cause severe, ICU-requiring distress)... which means the collective freedom of you and other people to not get vaccinated is likely to directly impact the freedom of others who are in need of an ICU bed. And then there is the immense mental and physical load that the unvaccinated severe cases of COVID put on the individual healthcare workers who are obligated by their professional ethics to treat you, no matter what.

So much loss of life, of wealth, of happiness only to satisfy the radical libertarianism of the few. You know, if it were like with seatbelts where the only one you're endangering by not wearing it is yourself then I'd say go for it, see you in wherever we end up after our death - but by not vaccinating, you are part of a direct threat against everyone else.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#896

Post by emn13 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #746
js2 wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I drink or smoke or I’m overweight, that doesn’t affect the health of my neighbor. It also doesn’t overcrowd hospitals causing innocent people to die because they can’t find treatment[1]. There also isn’t a vaccine for being overweight. (We should probably mandate seasonal flu vaccines too.) 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray...

It does because you place disproportionate strain on the healthcare system, which limits its accessibility to others. There also is a 100% successful method for losing weight, it's just that people can't or choose not to follow it, but we could mandate it and force them to. For their own good and the good of the healthcare system. (We probably should not mandate that or any other drug or medical treatment)

Do you really believe that mandating people do a difficult, time consuming task for years is reasonably equivalent to mandating them to get two shots, which take about 5 minutes each?

If no, then whatever the merits of your conclusion it certainly doesn't follow from the comparison made.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#897

Post by s_dev »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

>Seethe and cope, because at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be.

Peevish attitude -- as if getting a vaccine is a deep personal choice. It's not really. It's a public health issue and like masks you protect others around you from getting disease.

Ironically you depend on others doing the right thing to enjoy your little freedoms.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#898

Post by musicale »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

> at the end of the day you are a slave, and I will never be

I prefer the term "open source project maintainer."

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#899

Post by fuzxi »

burnished wrote: post #865
fuzxi wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Food prep takes time. Even if we abandon looking at it as as a strictly energy in energy out situation, we probably still recognize that healthier foods take more time than unhealthy foods.

>Even if we abandon looking at it as as a strictly energy in energy out situation

There is no reason to abandon looking at it that way. Eating healthier will not result in you losing weight if your caloric intake remains the same. Feel free to continue eating $1 burgers, just eat fewer of them.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#900

Post by locallost »

d1a2n wrote: post #893

Comment section here proving once again that high IQ nerds are, when it comes to the stuff that actually matters, overtly authoritarian. You might be all for giving children hormone blockers and championing the right to vote without ID, but it turns out the liberalism was just a LARP all along. I am fortunate to be in a position where my livelihood is not being threatened, and I will never get an unnecessary medical…

A lot of people will never understand you, so don't waste your time. You should instead try with a red light, say I'm not a slave, and drive through. The light won't understand you either, but maybe you finally will.
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