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China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

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Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#141

Post by justicezyx »

rjzzleep wrote: post #43
Retric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory no, in practice yes. They had an active nuclear weapons program that officially stopped just short of completion in the 1980’s. They also currently have multiple nuclear reactors in the country. So, they have the capacity to have produced nuclear weapons in the past or to produce them in the near future, but if they have any is somewhat unclear. Still, I would expect Shanghai to probably get nuked at some p…

No and no. It didn't officially stop just short of completion. The US actively worked to subvert it. Both overtly using the UN and covertly using the CIA. Taiwans nuclear industry was decimated as a result with a lot of the research facilities getting shut down and a lot of aspiring Nuclear scientists leaving the country or switching industries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_and_weapons_of_mass_des... https://…

The destruction of civilian nuclear industry is because the free people are dumbed to the degree that they cannot reason rationally the pros and cons of nuclear electricity; and they decide they don't want nuclear. And you can well see how the voting whores accelerate this process.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Taiwan#Anti-n...

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#142

Post by baybal2 »

tablespoon wrote: post #76
esyir wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution for Taiwan is obvious. Nuclearization. The only way for a country of that size to resist a superpower is to ensure that that superpower loses their capital if they dare bite.

> The only way for a country of that size to resist a superpower is to ensure that that superpower loses their capital if they dare bite. That's not MAD. Also I'm not sure if it's even plausible that Taiwan could successfully target Beijing even if it had nukes. Would their system be able to survive a first strike? Would it be able to penetrate hundreds of miles of Chinese air defenses or defeat an ABM system? IIRC,…

> Would it be able to penetrate hundreds of miles of Chinese air defenses or defeat an ABM system?

Cruise missile flying 100m off the ground.

For practical purposes, cruise missiles are the real wunderwaffe which is impossible to stop, not ballistic missiles.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#143

Post by justicezyx »

chunghuaming wrote: post #54
roenxi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a superpower. The future is bleak for Taiwan. But India has nukes, Japan can probably produce nukes in short order, Korea is in a state of hyper-militarisation for unrelated reasons and the US, insofar as they are active in the region, have nukes. It doesn't matter what the CCP wants, they might get away with Taiwan but it is hard to see what the follow up would be where Shanghai still gets to have skyscrape…

> The future is bleak for Taiwan. I keep seeing this argument. Let me explain why Taiwan will be free from China's attack for the next 30-50 years (long enough for Xi JinPing to expire) - US protection. If there's one thing both parties in US agrees on, it's against China. Biden just emphatically committed protection for Taiwan and peace in the south east Asia. There are many US warships sailing up and down Taiwan st…

I suggest Taiwan forsake the pursuit of independence, but at the same time commit to unification only on the democratic reform in China.

The pursuit of independence is just pursuit of conflict. No one in China, Taiwan, and US, can alter that trajectory.

Even if Taiwan managed to gain independence, most likely Taiwan, China, and US would be severely damaged (assuming all parties are still sane enough to avoid a total nuclear armageddon), democracy would simultaneously deteriet in all 3 regions. As economic downturn inevitably results into worsening social orders (more dictatorship, or more chaos), there has not been a single exception in human history anywhere, period.

Well, I guess EU would be happy to see that happening. It's a gamble, but if plays out correctly, EU would be left as the sole superpower. Not a bad outcome.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#144

Post by dirtyid »

Retric wrote: post #123
dirtyid wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to talk in generalities. PRC's thorough infiltration of TW military/industry and fact that ROC military brass are prodominantly KMT with pro-PRC sympathies has been intelligence consensus for decades. This isn't speculation, it's more or less accepted fact that guides US selling TW 2nd/3rd tier weapon platforms because they know anything that filters to TW military will finds it's way to PRC. Like e…

I don’t disagree that the PRC is gathering a lot of intelligence, but that’s a long way from saying they gather all relevant information. As to a preemptive strike that’s extremely unprecedented for China. It would definitely be considered at the highest levels, but would they act is a much larger question especially if they discovered functional nuclear weapons. Taiwan meanwhile benefits of China did such a strike o…

> a lot more uncertainty than you might assume

There is also more assumed uncertainty than reality. In terms of degrees of espionage, modern PRC's intelligence gathering on TW is probably the most comprehensive apparatus anywhere. Every few years, minister level intelligence assets get exposed in TW defense. There is blind assumption and there is consensus for those that follow the space. There aren't any credible analysis that suggests TW has hidden nukes or can conduct breakout nuke development without PRC being aware.

> would they act

See edit of all the times PRC acted, with explicit prior warnings on when core redlines are crossed. It's not only precedent but interventions are near certainty. Respectfully, TW trying to bait PRC with false nuclear proliferation is counterproductive, just about the only consensus security council states and current nuclear powers have is they don't want more mid-tier nations getting the bomb. Of all the reasons the PRC could get away with attacking TW with relatively little cost, stopping nuclear proliferation is at the top.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#145

Post by justicezyx »

throwaway_2047 wrote: post #37
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #4

What the CCP's been doing over the past couple of months is worrying. I wish there were a nicer explanation but it almost looks like they're preparing for war, or at least increasing confrontation.

I used to live in Hong Kong. In the past 2 year situation has been Orwellian. News outlet being shutdown, pro-democratic parties dismissed, charities disbanded, whole members of political party got arrested, among others. At least 1% of the population fled the city in the first half of 2021. In a parallel universe, and completely unrelated note, my friends in China, thinks their country can finally stand-up against t…

> [1] Clam down on Apple Daily, the only pro-democratic (that I know of) news outlet in Hong Kong

Apple Daily (Chinese: 蘋果日報) was a tabloid-style newspaper published in Hong Kong from 1995 to 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Daily

If apple daily is the only pro democracy, which is a tabloid style newspaper, the conclusion is that HK democracy is likely a very poor one.

If apple daily is not the only pro democracy news outlet, I think shutting it down is contributing to a healthy democracy.

> [2] Directors of Apple Daily arrested

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Media-Entertainment/Shares-...

It seems the market welcomes that...

It either means the market cares little about democracy, or Jimmy is not really the friend of democracy as himself proclaimed.

> [3] 65,000 applications of BN(O) visa, the visa for HKers to move to the UK. HK population is around 7.5M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong#Tide_of_...

Let's how bad this compares to the 1990s after Tiananmen square... I think it probably wont surpass that. Note the 1992 peak is 66000 actually leaving, your number is just applications.

> [4] Youtubers exodus, for fear of government prosecution in the name of the national security or for whatever reason.

Similar to the above.

> [5] 230 Democrats quitting local council.

https://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/simp/chinese-news-57816972 They seem are disqualified on the new oath rule? Which says that if they do not take oath to be loyal to the HK government, they'll be disqualified. So they decide to resign first.

Well, I believe CCP is very happy that they gave up so easily...

> [7] People were arrested in the name of national security here and there. A charity, formed last year, providing inmate visiting service, will be dismissed. Only Chinese source available at the moment

Your link is about a non profit disbanded fearing of crackdown.

> [8] During the peak of mass migration in the 90s, 62,000 people per year moved away from HK. Compare with 65,000 moving to the UK in the first 6 months

I guess if HK economy were hurt enough because of this exodus, it helps to guide the democracy sentiment of the society.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#146

Post by star-trek-fleet »

tablespoon wrote: post #35
sersi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say there's a clear difference between what they were doing post Deng Xiaoping and what they've been doing since Xi Jinping came to power. It's much more worrying now. I remember 15-20 years ago, my friends in China had hope that eventually it would open up but there's no longer any hope there. The few friends who are still outspoken (and are much much more careful than they used to be) now have no hope of this w…

> I'd say there's a clear difference between what they were doing post Deng Xiaoping and what they've been doing since Xi Jinping came to power. It's much more worrying now. > I remember 15-20 years ago, my friends in China had hope that eventually it would open up but there's no longer any hope there. The few friends who are still outspoken (and are much much more careful than they used to be) now have no hope of th…

> Liberals (both the American and more classical kind) often seem to assume their ideals will eventually prevail, but nothing guarantees that.

Same.

History has no single evidence that pure ideology movement can shift public opinion substantially and maintain that change in serious historically meaningful time period (let's say 50 - 100 years).

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#147

Post by justicezyx »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #22
depaulagu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, what the CCP's been doing over the past couple of /decades/ is worrying

You are making a very valid point. For a good amount of time China was not just tolerated, but supported by US business in general. In a sense, Lenin was right about the rope. The trope about prosperity bringing democracy was wrong. I will go even further. What China is doing may become something US will at least partially adopt.

> but supported by US business in general

Aside from earning more profit doing business in China. Is there other support from US business?

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#148

Post by PicassoCTs »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #4

What the CCP's been doing over the past couple of months is worrying. I wish there were a nicer explanation but it almost looks like they're preparing for war, or at least increasing confrontation.

The big problem right now is that they invite chinese ex-pats home for a passport renewl, but do not renew that passport. Which means, if you visit family, you are trapped, even if you are not very outspoken regarding politics.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#149

Post by PicassoCTs »

ashtonkem wrote: post #93
petra wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't 6 to 12 months that ages in wartime ?

The presumption is that they’d begin building them once they decide that America won’t guarantee their safety, not once China declares war.

China had a one child policy. It cant declare war. Everyone of those soldiers has two generations of parent pensioners depending on it. China is not trying to emulate the us and thus - disregarding the propaganda, not gearing up for war.

Re: China uses anti-fraud app to track access to overseas financial news sites

#150

Post by bakuninsbart »

star-trek-fleet wrote: post #127
bakuninsbart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you mean by crackdown. On capitalism? Yes, and they've been really clear about it. China still has the official plan to introduce socialism by 2050, capitalist freedoms were never meant to be permanent. Now by 2050, the CCP is also supposed to be merely taking a backseat roll and the society will be equal and free. I think that's the contentious point within the CCP. Xi is part of the hardline left…

> China still has the official plan to introduce socialism by 2050 Where did you get this? Socialism is installed in China in 1960s, as we were told in text book. If there was such a plan to start socialism in China in 2050, that must be invented after 2008 after I left China. As for what is really socialism, the definitions I see so far are as colorful as capitalism. You might be referring some definition of sociali…

Indeed, translations change a lot, and phrasing also changed over time within China, but you are right to call me out on being imprecise. In german we usually differentiate between socialistic and socialist with the former being the movement working on becoming the second. Still, Marx was already talking about the difference between "lower" communism, socialist mode of production, and "final" communism, the communist society. Mao said China was in the initial stage of socialism, but didn't really explain what that meant. This was then built on by his successors.[1]

This article goes into a bit of detail on the current plan, which is now to reach the final state of socialism by 2050.[2]

This has been a key aspect of internal CPC ideology since the 70s, so I'm not sure what you consider "venting".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_stage_of_socialism

[2] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-15-9833-3_...

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