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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#761

Post by mike00632 »

throwawayfear wrote: post #682
trainsplanes wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of hospitals are more strained now than they ever were. Covid's more infectious now and some staff have quit.

How much is "a bunch" of hospitals? How are you measuring "more strained" "than they ever were?" Because the evidence I found suggests the situation was overblown: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos... In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had onl…

Remember when FEMA had to send 85 refrigerator trucks to NYC to serve as temporary morgues?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fema-is-sending-85-refrige...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#762

Post by ixacto »

jonny_eh wrote: post #714
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Covid is contagious, obesity is not.

Actually I’d disagree that obesity is not contagious. Look at many families they’re all obese all the family members. Could be something too it.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#763

Post by ineptech »

throwawayfear wrote: post #753
jonnycomputer wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hesitate to take one study as definitive either way. Also, I've seen data pointing to important variables of possible interest moderating the potential effectiveness, including age, and severity of first infection.

Please hestitate after providing your sources.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/12/beware-the-man-of-one-...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#764

Post by OrvalWintermute »

neuro_image2 wrote: post #662
opnitro wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provide 3 sources, yet don't cite a source for the claim that ~10k have died from the vaccine. Could we have a citation for that one?

He can't, because it's garbage.

Going to suggest that rather than mudslinging, you do the work of looking at VAERS [1] yourself

Alternatively, you could use VAERSanalysis [2], or Openvaers [3]

In this spirit of openness, here is also an NPR article [4] on VAERS data quality/verification issues, and how the data may not be considered high quality, that anti-vaxxers use it to spread disinformation. I'm adding that specifically because it is the contrary opinion about the quality of the data and I believe in an open debate. I am not an anti-vaxxer, being up on all my vaccines, and then some due to overseas work, along with one experimental vaccine, but not covid vaccinated yet.

[1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/

[2] https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/10/vaers-summary-for-covi...

[3] https://openvaers.com/covid-data

[4] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/14/1004757...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#765

Post by mike00632 »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #724
opnitro wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You provide 3 sources, yet don't cite a source for the claim that ~10k have died from the vaccine. Could we have a citation for that one?

I actually looked in VAERS and did an export of the accessible data. Most of the numbers touted are generally around 10k, although VAERS underreporting is a well-known issue, and, VAERS data quality is suspect in the first place, by design. If you want a website that has more data though: https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/10/vaers-summary-for-covi...

Isn't citing VAERS on anti-vax bingo?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#766

Post by yupper32 »

bradknowles wrote: post #747
fuzxi wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Nope. Doesn’t work that way. When you eat less, your body goes into starvation mode and burns fewer calories. And some bodies are extremely resistant to losing weight under any circumstances. Try doing the German prisoner of war diet for a year, and accurately track on a daily basis how many calories you eat, and how much weight you lose. Then you can come back and tell us your anecdote of how you personally respond…

This is a whole load of misinformation. Please stop spreading this BS.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#767

Post by throwawaylinux »

slumpt_ wrote: post #742
fuzxi wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One takes a couple minutes and the other is something requiring an hour or more of dedicated time per day for potentially years (or a whole lifetime! Nope. You don't have to dedicate time to exercising to lose weight, you can just eat less.

Also not trivial, given the legitimate hunger and compulsion someone with an overeating problem may have after suffering with it for years. So yes, not an explicit time dedication, but you’re being pedantic at that point and the practical reality that a vaccine is a minimal inconvenience is reasonably unavoidable. Obviously exceptions exist, which is what medical exceptions are for etc etc.

> Also not trivial, given the legitimate hunger and compulsion someone with an overeating problem may have after suffering with it for years.

Yeah but you could just mandate it. Force them to eat small amounts. Fire them from their jobs, prevent them from traveling, and lock them out of civil society if they do not comply. Make them submit to weekly weigh-ins.

They wouldn't like it of course, but neither do the people being coerced into taking vaccines. Point is it's for the greater good, and if reducing their load on the healthcare system saves just one life, it all will have been worth it. Right? I mean while we're just here completely making up values and cost/benefit out of thin air, we can mandate pretty much anything.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#768

Post by enkid »

dham wrote: post #685
MSM wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

> Let's say, hypothetically, there existed a free shot which would immediately make its recipient a perfectly lean 20 BMI and grants all the benefits of health and exercise without the work I would be very skeptical and wonder what the downside is

And that's why we have tons of studies checking these shots for efficacy and side effects. Studies the mRNA vaccines have passed with flying colors.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#769

Post by nradov »

MSM wrote: post #620
ixacto wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Are you suggesting then that the US should adopt something like Japan's "metabo law"? It appears to be at least somewhat effective in coercing people into losing weight.

https://www.jacksonville.com/reason/fact-check/2016-09-16/st...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#770

Post by ixacto »

MSM wrote: post #620
ixacto wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reply as the devils advocate to this comment, what is the tolerance to social costs that society is willing to bear? Also why would one segment of society have to do something that it doesn't want e.g. not bear risk if they want to? Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? Overweight and obesity are going to cost much more in increased healthcare costs than COVID will in the coming decades (pls prove m…

>Should we tell people to get their BMI under 25 too? >What about drinking and smoking? There's a lot of investment in trying to fix these problems already, or at least offset the costs. For example, there are "sin taxes" for things like cigarettes and alcohol, which means smokers and drinkers are paying disproportionately more taxes than those that don't. You could argue that overweight folks are also paying disprop…

Actually no, we don’t even need a shot to lose weight you just eat less.

Also the government is actively promoting obesity by subsidizing cheap unhealthy food via agriculture subsidies like hfcs and soybeans.

So while there are some who have actually spoken out against obesity like Michelle Obama, most are silent as the issue is kinda politically inconvenient for both parties on a macro scale.

It’s disgusting and why I don’t support either major political party in this country.

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