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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#501

Post by HWR_14 »

dang wrote: post #472
HWR_14 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing the only thing that matters is death, not any other issue. Good thing children never transmit viruses to adults. Good thing reservoirs of disease never allow for novel mutations. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare projections in one case to actual results in the other. Good thing your source[1] didn't do something fundamentally dishonest like compare one rate…

Please don't argue in the flamewar style on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. It is exactly what we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'm not arguing with you, but I'm not 100% sure what specifically was wrong. Can I trouble you to provide a little more context? Was it stylistic? I originally wrote up my issues with his source as a paragraph, but that seemed harder to read. Was it the repetitive beginning of each line? Or was I just being too snarky?

Oh, and sorry.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#502

Post by jdminhbg »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #467
jowday wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could say that if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff with natural immunity, things would gone a lot better and people would have behaved much more rationally about COVID, but I don't think that's true. I've got family in a small town in the south - the countermeasures they took against COVID basically amounted to Wal-Mart closing for a weekend in March. Most of the people there had made…

> if authorities hadn't lied about, say, masks or this stuff When did authorities lie? The position on masks changed over time as data was acquired. Unless you mean when the FDA/CDC was worried about a run on masks, which they were right about. But I think ascribing a malicious intent to that learning process is disingenuous. The only people that have made literally malicious claims have been people on the far-right,…

> Unless you mean when the FDA/CDC was worried about a run on masks, which they were right about.

Lying for what you believe to be a good reason is still lying.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#503

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

mjg59 wrote: post #39
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends entirely on an individual immune system detects and combats a particular infection. How is that different from a vaccine?

The vaccine either contains or triggers the production of a specific protein that is (fairly) stable across variants - so there's only one thing for the immune system to key off. The concern around natural immunity is that your immune system may respond to some aspect of the virus that isn't as stable, ie it ends up recognising part of the virus that's present in your current infection but may not be in a later infec…

Thanks for the excellent reply. Sorry about the folks who are not equipped to understand it's relevance or contents.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#504

Post by core-utility »

dooopy wrote: post #457

It's not that complicated - No one has died getting their immunity from the vaccine, but lots die in the process of getting natural immunity from the actual virus. The vaccine is a much safer way to get your antibodies going.

There are reported cases of individuals dying reportedly from the vaccine. I can't speak for the accuracy of the reports, but I am concerned with the lack of reporting thereof, and additionally the active censorship of those who speak of any issues.

[1]: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/gofundme-de-platforms-dad-...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#505

Post by dang »

stefan_ wrote: post #139
cblconfederate wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 times actually https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... I think this will be more relevant to vaccinating kids: If this result holds for kids as well, and considering that Covid is not dangerous for kids, maybe kids are better off getting covid

No, of course they are not, hence why we are vaccinating them. This is fud. (Is this the dumbest argument yet? "If you just get COVID, you will have the best protection against COVID!"? I take it the dead people have the best protection to offer yet?)

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. If someone else is wrong, for example, one good option is to patiently provide correct information.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this one:

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#506

Post by m-p-3 »

My mother-in-law works in Healthcare as N auxiliary nurse and caught COVID-19 at the beginning of the pandemic. She was officially recorded as positive by the govt (through a periodic PCR test at work, and received a quarantine order). She received one dose since. But even though they're saying an infection is protecting as much as one vaccine dose, they aren't acknowledging it in the vaccine passport as "adequately protected".

She'll get the second dose, but she was under the impression she was already covered, it's a bit frustrating.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#507

Post by mioasndo »

amalcon wrote: post #108
mioasndo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're just going to pretend that the entire media and political establishment (at least in US) as well as many industries (ex. big tech) are not strongly supportive of big pharma when it comes to the vaccines? Are you going to pretend people are not being actively censored, banned, cancelled, fired for being vaccine-sceptical? Do you not believe that the extensively-documented mass manipulation of public opinion…

The media, political establishment (or at least half of it), and other industries are supportive of vaccine mandates. These loose groups of people can indeed influence the public, and are using this ability to promote vaccines. These premises are uncontroversial. The problem is that some folks are jumping to the conclusion that they are doing this because they want to sacrifice their own interests to increase profits…

> These loose groups of people can indeed influence the public, and are using this ability to promote vaccines.

There is nothing loose about the US media and political establishments. If you watch mainstream media with any regularity you'd think it was two departments of one corporation.

> The problem is that some folks are jumping to the conclusion that they are doing this because they want to sacrifice their own interests to increase profits for big pharma.

I didn't see anyone make that claim. There are many extensively documented cases of collusion between government and media. 9/11 coverage, Afghanistan, and Iraq wars, virtually any coverage of foreign adversaries (Russia, China, Iran), vaccines, etc. being some obvious examples.

> I know it's comfortable to think that the world's largest economy is entirely under control of three companies, but I see no compelling evidence that this is the case.

Oh yeah, can't think of anything more comfortable to think of!

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#508

Post by IAmGraydon »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

As we saw when mask mandates were dropped for the vaccinated, the unvaccinated just lied and said they were. Same here - everyone who has neither been vaccinated nor infected will just claim they’ve had Covid. That is, unless we start testing everyone for antibodies.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#509

Post by mattmanser »

rajin444 wrote: post #410
mattmanser wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nothing to do with them catching it, it's about them spreading it. The usually bandied figure is 80% immunity to stop the pandemic. Without the teenagers vaccinated, that's never going to get hit. Wait until winter hits and the cases spike, then it's suddenly going to become "necessary", but if they'd made that hard decision 3 months ago this would already be over.

How can they know that figure (80%) without knowing % of people with natural immunity? We can guess but there hasn't been much of an effort made to track this.

If you mean anti-bodies, then they've been sampling the population and know the percent of people who've got anti-bodies.

If you mean something else, you're a victim of fake news.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#510

Post by thomasahle »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

> a huge segment of the population [might just] get infected purposefully

This made sense as a fear before vaccines were available. If immunity passports existed, and the only way to get one was to be infected - sure some people would do they.

Howver now it would be much easier to get vaccinated than finding an infection and get it registered. The policy would save a bunch of people from a couple of vaccine induced sick days without any reasonable downsides. Seems like an easy decision to make.

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