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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#351

Post by wpietri »

thebean11 wrote: post #342
wpietri wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Serology is a thing, sure. But two points: Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. We are not constrained on vaccine supply. So the practical advantage of allowing a totally different pathway is not obvious. Creating another pathway adds a lot of cognitive load and confusion. The bar bou…

> Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. The difference is that the serum test is risk free. If I knew I was already immune, I would not have gotten the vaccine to be completely honest, no matter how small the risk is. For the same reason I don't get other safe and effective treatments for diseases I do not have.

The effects of the test, sure, because that's just a blood draw. The downstream impact to disease and transmission risk, definitely not.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#352

Post by dougmwne »

jonstaab wrote: post #257
mdoms wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and skip "LaserHodl's" opinions on this whole issue.

Did I not hedge enough? Two years ago I was a happy, contented liberal raising a family and working at my job. I still am, but I believe some quite different things about what is happening in the world, which old me would have dismissed out of hand.

Can you synthesize your thoughts on this? I won't dismiss ideas just because of where they come from, but can't wade through a 2 hour podcast to guess at what you might have meant.

For my own part, I have been quite shocked by the leadership vacuum during the pandemic. It's increasingly clear to me that no one is really at the wheel in the larger part of the West, but many are pretending to be steering the ship. I don't assign anything uber-nefarious to it beyond basic human greed, fear, power lust, incompetence and bullshit. A Chinese style government forced on US, would be, to quote Stalin, a "saddle on a cow." There may be some other countries that would cotton on to it quite readily though if the western coalition were to continue to weaken.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#353

Post by temp8964 »

wpietri wrote: post #276
throwaway894345 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

> Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Serology is a thing, sure. But two points: Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. We are not constrained on vaccine supply. So the practical advantage of allowing a totally different pathway is not obvious. Creating another pathway adds a lot of cognitive load and confusion. The bar bou…

You are making all those strange excuses to force people to get vaccinated. Some people don’t want to for whatever reasons, if they want to get positive test results, that’s their choice. Stop using twisted logic and marginal cases to make up arguments to satisfy your authoritarian desire.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#354

Post by staplers »

suifbwish wrote: post #263
JoshTriplett wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

"A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others."

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#355

Post by IncRnd »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

> Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18.

> IMO it would make a lot more sense to just keep vaccines available for everyone older than 2 including boosters every 6 months (just in case)

That's a terrible idea. Children are not small adults, and you can't use the same medicine for children as for adults. There are Pediatricians who work specifically with children. Giving drugs to children is unlike the scenario where a heavy car takes twice the gasoline a ligher care takes.

"Therefore, the risk of cardiac adverse events following the second dose of the mRNA vaccine could be around 3.7 times more likely than hospitalization due to COVID-19 in healthy 12-15-year-old boys during periods when the pandemic is better under control 2.1 times in 16-17-year-olds. The group found that this trend remains even when SARS-CoV-2 transmission rates are high, with vaccination being riskier than hospitalization from COVID-19. The long-term health effect of the mRNA vaccines on teenage boys is unknown. Few clinical trials have been conducted due to the early observation of adverse events." [1]

[1] https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210913/The-rate-of-vacci...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#356

Post by freeopinion »

wpietri wrote: post #276
throwaway894345 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

> Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Serology is a thing, sure. But two points: Getting a serum test rather than getting the vaccine is not going to be cheaper, easier, or better studied. We are not constrained on vaccine supply. So the practical advantage of allowing a totally different pathway is not obvious. Creating another pathway adds a lot of cognitive load and confusion. The bar bou…

The people who would be confused by two pathways are already confused. It would not increase confusion. You have a vaccination card or you have a positive test card.

Right now there are already at least two pathways. You have a vaccination card or a negative test card within an allowable date range.

The bigger issues are privacy, etc. Not, "Oh no, there are two options! I'm so confused."

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#357

Post by n8henrie »

vibrato2 wrote: post #239
lghh wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

Did you miss the data point that boys are 6x more likely to be affected from the therapy than the illness?

This is a blatant misrepresentation.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#358

Post by orwin »

mcguire wrote: post #87
orwin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, actually, antibody test. They are quite costly however. Im my country, getting infected count as the 1rst dose (yes, i know, natural immunity is better with "real" infections, but rememeber that Covid sometime start an auto-immune disease, it's hard to test for this, so its less costly to just vaccinate people (the jab cost 12E)). No scientific response. This is mostly pragmatic, and probably politic too. I…

$42.13? https://www.labcorp.com/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/individ...

Well, yes, $42 * 10M is expensive. Not that $15210M is not. And i'm pretty sure half the people who said "i got covid" last year did not have it (and i'm kind). So let's say we had tested half the population, and that half of this half have to get vaccinated anyway, since the test was negative. For France, that's one billion euros used for nothing.

I'm to tired to make sense, but you understand my point (if not, i'll have to explain the reasoning better).

Anyway, it's pragmatism and not wasting money.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#360

Post by jowday »

nradov wrote: post #336
jowday wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean ultimately we’re guessing at the rationale of the leadership of each of these countries - but I’d guess based on vaccination rates that Europe generally has less of an antivax problem than the US, so authorities there might be less concerned about vaccine hesitancy. Vaccine hesitancy in the US is also very regionally concentrated - maybe less so in Germany? “COVID parties” are also a worst case scenario - I th…

There is a huge variance in vaccination rates of European countries. The US is behind most western European countries but ahead of most eastern European countries. https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer

I was talking about Germany specifically in the parent - the least vaccinated state in Germany has a ~10% higher vaccination rates than the least vaccinated state in the US. But it looks like there is a good deal of variance even inside Germany.
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