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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#311

Post by efficax »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

clinical trials are ongoing for <12 year olds. The biggest change is that the dosages will have to be lower. If you give a young child the current adult dose they will have a higher chance of side effects.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#312

Post by dr_dshiv »

Izkata wrote: post #271
throwaway894345 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

I'd lean towards "probably not safe"; we only just found that teenage boys are at 6x more risk from heart problems from the vaccine than any risk from covid itself: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-ris... https://archive.is/ixG5G

Woah, that's super intense. Wow. I think i will still vaccinate my 12 year old boy because he wants to get the shot and these numbers are still low, but yeah, now i want more info. Thank you.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#313

Post by sk2020 »

lghh wrote: post #217
beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

What is the baseline utilization of ICU space? I’m also curious what happened to those heroic efforts of retrofitting parking garages into field-expedient hospitals. Oh, and the notorious “gunshot victims are being left to die because of all the covid, bros!” misinformation that respectable journalists printed without any effort to check the facts.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#314

Post by throwawayfear »

jowday wrote: post #189

The answer is pretty simple - the moment authorities start saying "well, natural immunity is probably just as good as vaccination, we'll accept that as equal to vaccination for passport purposes", a huge segment of the population who's on the fence about getting the vaccine might just opt to wait until they're infected naturally, or, even worse, get infected purposefully (EG, chicken pox parties). Which leads to more…

Past covid gives antibodies that are superior to two shots of Pfizer.

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on...

So yes, it IS just as good as the vaccination and should be treated as such. Vaccinating people for the sake of vaccinating them is illogical here.

And don't even get me started on vaccine passports, which are completely unnecessary. If a place of employment absolutely needs proof of vaccination, like the NICU at the hospital or a nursing home or a college dorm, that information can be relayed via existing protocols. We don't need a "papers please" society where paper shufflers and bureaucrats can arbitrarily gate access to society this way.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#315

Post by weaksauce »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #172
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

> Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Serology is a thing, as are records of positive test results. Also, in many cases, "proof of vaccination" includes a cell phone photo of the piece of paper they handed out when you got a vaccine, so as it stands, lying is pretty easy. > Vaccines are safe and available yet we…

there was a fitness instructor in colorado that didn't get the vaccine because he had tested and had antibodies in his blood. then he got covid again(or maybe the first time?) and it just absolutely decimated his body. he lost 70 lbs and is walking around with an oxygen bottle. the only real way to make sure you have proper antibodies and B and T cell responses is to have either gotten a symptomatic case of covid that lasted a while or getting the vaccine.(yes that's also not foolproof wrt antibodies/t/b response but it's a generally good method)

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#316

Post by mattmanser »

beaner wrote: post #198
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

It's nothing to do with them catching it, it's about them spreading it.

The usually bandied figure is 80% immunity to stop the pandemic.

Without the teenagers vaccinated, that's never going to get hit.

Wait until winter hits and the cases spike, then it's suddenly going to become "necessary", but if they'd made that hard decision 3 months ago this would already be over.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#317

Post by not2b »

suifbwish wrote: post #263
JoshTriplett wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

That's incorrect. Vaccinated people are contracting Covid at a bit less than 1/5 the rate of the unvaccinated. See for example

https://covid19.sccgov.org/dashboard-case-rates-vaccination-...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#318

Post by outworlder »

suifbwish wrote: post #263
JoshTriplett wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Vaccinated individuals can also carry it. It does not stop spread or contraction. These Vaccines are just supposed to reduce the extreme Symptoms

No they are not. They are supposed to allow the immune system to react more quickly after infection (essentially immediately if you have antibodies).

Kill pathogens more quickly, you'll be infectious for less time, and whoever do you infect will have a lower viral load.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#319

Post by jowday »

swader999 wrote: post #275
glogla wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which leads to more deaths and outbreaks. Worse, it leads to 1. new COVID variants, some of which will be worse than what we have, 2. more deaths from people who had some other health emergency while unvaccinated idiots are slowly dying in the hospitals taking valuable beds, and 3. to more burned out, dead and PTSD suffering healthcare personal. I would recommend everyone to browse [1] and [2]. Not being vaccinated…

If you are previously infected or not in a vulnerable group its not selfish or stupid to avoid this vaccine. You can manage it with monoclonal antibodies if you do get a severe outcome. Mass vaccinating the entire population for a respiratory virus that mutates so easily creates a whole host of other problems and a never ending pandemic of variants that may actually get more severe.

>If you are previously infected or not in a vulnerable group its not selfish or stupid to avoid this vaccine. You can manage it with monoclonal antibodies if you do get a severe outcome.

But there's a chance of you spreading the infection to someone who's vulnerable in the process of recovering from it. Or someone else who ends up spreading it to someone who's vulnerable. Could just be that you pass by someone in your apartment building on the way to pick up your antibodies. Or exhausting medical care supplies if you do end up needing treatment.

I'm not equipped to tell whether your claim about mass vaccinations are true, but if that's correct are yearly flu shots also a bad idea?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#320

Post by tomohawk »

beaner wrote: post #198
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Minor correction.

That 412 number is "covid involved", not "covid caused".

This could be that the death was not at all due to covid, but the cadaver tested positive. They were in a car accident, for example.

This could be actually caused by covid primarily.

This could be covid tipped someone over the edge who was already very ill.

EDIT: also hospitalizations for children are rare

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

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