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Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

bmj.com

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Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#121

Post by cblconfederate »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

13 times actually

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

I think this will be more relevant to vaccinating kids: If this result holds for kids as well, and considering that Covid is not dangerous for kids, maybe kids are better off getting covid

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#122

Post by Pxtl »

timr wrote: post #22
eltondegeneres wrote: post #13

OP keeps posting articles pushing the idea that COVID-19 infection alone is sufficient to protect individuals.

The current data suggests that's true, which is why it counts in other countries, and the US stance is seen as anomalous.

It's still alarming to see a user-account whose contributions are banging consistently on this singular issue.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#123

Post by dougmwne »

Pxtl wrote: post #110

... yeah, this is not going to be a productive comment thread. Sadly, COVID has been so politicized that I tend to say "sit down, shut up, and let the public health people drive". Even if they're wrong, they're close-enough to right to satisfy me and that's better than opening public health up to debate.

Productive or not, the debate must go on. It is the foundation of our republics.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#125

Post by syshum »

rajin444 wrote: post #8

It's very concerning that the president is saying things like "your refusal has cost all of us" and "our patience is wearing this" when talking to people with natural immunity who have not received the vaccine. As president, he should be looking for every reason to not alienate his own citizens. It seems like he's doing the opposite. I'm not really sure why. My best guess is politics has become all about polarization…

Unification in the eyes of many is "Do what we say, we gave you a choice, you choose wrong so now we have have to use force"

That is not unification or pluralism. They (including democrats and republicans but today right now mainly democrats) want a political mono-culture and are willing to use force to get it.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#126

Post by kuraudo »

Pxtl wrote: post #110

... yeah, this is not going to be a productive comment thread. Sadly, COVID has been so politicized that I tend to say "sit down, shut up, and let the public health people drive". Even if they're wrong, they're close-enough to right to satisfy me and that's better than opening public health up to debate.

I think everyone should get the vaccine, but this is the kind of comment that births brand new skeptics.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#127

Post by pzh »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #124

Natural immunity isn't subsidized by taxpayers, and does not enrich any party through sales of a vaccine... on those grounds, of course they are encouraged to receive the vaccine.

Somebody can still make money by offering a test that proves natural immunity.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#128

Post by RHSeeger »

RIMR wrote: post #47
eltondegeneres wrote: post #13

OP keeps posting articles pushing the idea that COVID-19 infection alone is sufficient to protect individuals.

Despite having an account since 2018, they have only posted 5 submissions. 4 of them were posted in the past 3 weeks, and all have to do questioning the viability of the vaccines. I know we want to have a space here to freely discuss things without being dismissed, but I also think enough of us have managed enough websites to understand that this account shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not saying that they are a bo…

If they are pushing/submitting based on actual facts and studies, then I don't see the problem. It seems like the overall argument is following a pattern of

- A vaccination is currently a requirement for participating in society.

- There are studies showing that having the virues is just as effective (or more) than a vaccination.

- There are places where "having the vaccination" meets the requirement for participating in society.

And, from there, discussing why the US doesn't also follow this logic.

Now, I can't speak to the studies validity. And an argument can be made that it's harder to verify that someone has had the virus already or some such. Or one of any of a dozen other reasons "why not". But having a discussion of the "why not" seems perfectly reasonable.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#129

Post by prox »

handmodel wrote: post #114
darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

There's no evidence that having the vaccine stops you from developing natural immunity if you have a breakthrough. If the vaccine fails you then you will get covid (like you would have in the same situation without vaccine) and will develop natural immunity then.

Even if you do get a breakthrough, chance of not going to a hospital is significantly lower.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#130

Post by tonmoy »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

Please provide a credible source (preferably a peer reviewed publication) for such a bold claim.
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