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Software should convey a sense of calm

patrickjuchli.com

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Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#61

Post by patternMachine »

jimmaswell wrote: post #9

> I want to find the same things in the same places How else will designers justify their jobs? I wonder if designer should be reworked to be a seasonal or consultancy job only, to only hire them when you're making a new product/big feature or there's a drastic need to change things but never otherwise. Having them as permanent staff leads to our present usability and accessability nightmare of everything constantly…

Pointlessly reworking software is the hallmark of a poor (or green) contributor. Designers can redesign features that work fine, engineers can refactor code that doesn't need optimization, PMs can come up with features that nobody needs. Designers might do this more often since there is a somewhat lower barrier to entry than the other two disciplines, but that doesn't mean the whole profession should be ditched. A good designer knows when to pull out the big design guns and when to leave em holstered.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#62

Post by scollet »

jimmaswell wrote: post #9

> I want to find the same things in the same places How else will designers justify their jobs? I wonder if designer should be reworked to be a seasonal or consultancy job only, to only hire them when you're making a new product/big feature or there's a drastic need to change things but never otherwise. Having them as permanent staff leads to our present usability and accessability nightmare of everything constantly…

Designers often have a much more intimate view of the application as an abstraction.

I don't think you want to be benching that knowledge very often.

Having extended research phases or personal development would be great to cycle in between major releases.

In the interim they might develop better tooling or A/B a subset of features, or strategize with the analytics dept.

We really all should have a designer mindset, but truly professional designers are product gurus.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#63

Post by brendoelfrendo »

jrm4 wrote: post #31
ysavir wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming for the sake of argument that this is at all true, is the problem that designers are out to justify their jobs, and making changes as a consequence, or that designers are being put in a position where they have to justify their jobs, and are making changes to satisfy their managers? If anything, the problem in this scenario is that culturally we need everyone to be contributing all of the time, even for posi…

If this is the best argument one can come up with for not being critical here, for me it absolutely proves we need to be more critical here. Of course, I don't wish to see anyone suffer, but I'm seeing something like: "Hey, we're paying a guy to dig holes and fill them back up with no value whatsoever, why are we doing that?" "Hey, man, stop attacking hole-diggers, they're just trying to make a living."

I think, then, that software devs need to be more critical of themselves, too. I see people in the comments often bemoan that we are too reluctant to call projects "feature complete" when adding new features stops adding value. Instead, we get new versions and features for no reason other than to justify the continued existence of a full-time development team.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#64

Post by sodapopcan »

dtjb wrote: post #19
jimmaswell wrote: post #9

> I want to find the same things in the same places How else will designers justify their jobs? I wonder if designer should be reworked to be a seasonal or consultancy job only, to only hire them when you're making a new product/big feature or there's a drastic need to change things but never otherwise. Having them as permanent staff leads to our present usability and accessability nightmare of everything constantly…

I'm sure there are designers making parallel arguments about developers :)

Yeah, there is certainly a parallel argument to be made about constantly introducing new tech even if the currently used tech is GoodEnough.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#65

Post by 3np »

ElFitz wrote: post #58
tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from the field of Human Computer Interaction This is how you get death by a thousand A/B tests a la Google, Facebook, and other ultimately user-hostile interfaces that optimize for ad engagement. Give me a compassionate, thoughtful, designer who isn't an ass hole any day of the week.

Is this issue here how they optimise their interfaces or what they optimise them for?

Obviously the latter is a major issue but additionally I think great detriments are coming from an obsession to quantify and reduce everything into arbitrary models. sizzle is talking more about qualitative than quantitative studies, though.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#66

Post by milkytron »

magicink81 wrote: post #42
jimmaswell wrote: post #9

> I want to find the same things in the same places How else will designers justify their jobs? I wonder if designer should be reworked to be a seasonal or consultancy job only, to only hire them when you're making a new product/big feature or there's a drastic need to change things but never otherwise. Having them as permanent staff leads to our present usability and accessability nightmare of everything constantly…

Design is misunderstood, often by designers, and it seems like you also may have some misunderstandings based on your assessments of what should designers do (vs what they do). Based on your comment it sounds like the designers you work with have an over-emphasis on visual UI design. I don't think you are to blame though - I have observed a consistent dumbing down of design discourse and practices among people that d…

This is such a great comment that adheres to exactly what my SO experiences. She is a UX designer, and she was the first one hired at her company. They had no idea what UX design is and all the processes, research, etc that takes place.

> I have observed that designers are less interested in educating the world about their practices than perhaps they need to be in order to change this situation.

She has found her job has become mostly informing and teaching others how to go about these practices, and if she has spare time does the work herself. But it was such an ordeal when they hired her because they didn't even know what she was supposed to do. She has acted very much like a consultant in this regard, but also does the work involved.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#67

Post by jrm4 »

ysavir wrote: post #47
jrm4 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the best argument one can come up with for not being critical here, for me it absolutely proves we need to be more critical here. Of course, I don't wish to see anyone suffer, but I'm seeing something like: "Hey, we're paying a guy to dig holes and fill them back up with no value whatsoever, why are we doing that?" "Hey, man, stop attacking hole-diggers, they're just trying to make a living."

Can you go into more detail of why you think we need to be critical of designers? The GP makes no effort to justify their criticism of designers, perhaps you can provide some reasons for it, and thereby allow people to respond to actual arguments.

Not necessarily of "designers," but perhaps of "design."

In my opinion, "design" does two things at the same time that are presently fundamentally incompatible without being honest about it -- namely "usability" and "fashion."

It's absolutely possible to do both, but you can't pretend you're doing one when you're doing the other. Architecture comes to mind. They do this right, most often by putting usability "first." You can make your design as pretty as you want, but if the damn wheelchair ramp doesn't work as intended, the whole design is broken and if that means your pretty thing must die because of it, then kill it and start over.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#68

Post by anchpop »

Zababa wrote: post #51
ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you go into more detail of why you think we need to be critical of designers? The GP makes no effort to justify their criticism of designers, perhaps you can provide some reasons for it, and thereby allow people to respond to actual arguments.

A good example that was discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28504573 The justification isn't "It helps users" or anything like that. It's "This is not a new idea either — pretty much everyone else is doing it, e.g. macOS, Windows, iOS, Android, elementary OS, KDE.". Reducing usability and breaking habits to follow trends is a bad thing.

This is a purely aesthetic change, it doesn't break any habits. In this case, it probably also improves usability, because there's less visual noise connected to those buttons, which lets you draw attention to buttons the user might not already know about using the same technique while staying within a certain 'visual noise budget'. Users expect that icons on the header bar are buttons (what else would they be?), so there's no need to call attention to that fact with an extra visual indicator.

"Following trends" is a good thing because users appreciate when a piece of software looks like software they're already familiar with. It is maybe slightly annoying to people who already are used to the software, but every new user benefits from it.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#69

Post by pc86 »

ysavir wrote: post #45
pc86 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that designers keep getting paid for work they've already done?

I'm suggesting that if a company has designers that know their product, branding, team members, philosophies, values, and that have proven quality of work and ability to get along with the team, that they not eliminate their position because there isn't any design work needed _right now_. When you do need design work, you don't want to have to go through the trouble of hiring, on boarding, etc. The same applies for s…

Software requires maintenance and can benefit from refactoring. What's the equivalent for design?

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#70

Post by pc86 »

tnzm wrote: post #40
pc86 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that designers keep getting paid for work they've already done?

Royalties, man, yeah.

Royalties don't really apply when you're being paid a wage for the work in the first place. The cognitive dissonance in both railing against spec work then demanding a piece of profit in perpetuity is, well... impressive.
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