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How factories were made safe

rootsofprogress.org

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Re: How factories were made safe

#31

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Jtsummers wrote: post #29
rtkwe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there’s a lot of people who don’t know the history of labor at all and have been convinced that companies without outside regulation would totally treat their employees well and not abuse, over work, injure, or flatly refuse to pay owed wages. It’s a real success story for the pro-business groups in the US and around the world.

You see the same misconception with environmental regulations, it makes for some interesting (though frustrating) discussions though.

You see the same misconceptions in the other direction as well.

It's like some people think a work stoppage from cleaning up a dead worker or hazardous material spill don't result in lost productivity that workplaces would rather not incur.

Re: How factories were made safe

#32

Post by dredmorbius »

Roots of Progress explores a fascinating and critically vital question, but does so under ideological blinders and using manifestly obvious rhetorical techniques (strawman arguments, blame-the-victim, historical revisionism) which hugely impair the entire project.

Tremendous potential. Miserable accomplishment.

Re: How factories were made safe

#33

Post by throwaway0a5e »

ghostly_s wrote: post #20
pessimizer wrote: post #4

This is a summary of how the factories were made safe masquerading as a summary of why the factories were made safe. It comes to the Whiggish conclusion that factories were made safe because time moves forward. It mentions that the real reason was Workers' Comp., which made injured workers a cost for employers, and buries in a parenthetical that Workers' Comp was created by socialist union protests, and taken up by G…

Really pathetic but unsurprising that people here are downvoting this comment. It's not often that you see an author constructing a literal straw-man these days; the piece flatly ignores the importance of the massively powerful labor movements of this period--so powerful that states were regularly resorting to armed struggle with them--instead pretending that "social reformers" existed in a vacuum.

Did we read the same article? The author addresses the labor movements and points out that they weren't very concerned with improving safety, sometimes worked against it and cites sources along the way.

Re: How factories were made safe

#34

Post by clipradiowallet »

sanxiyn wrote: post #19
bserge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which software? Drone target acquisition or TikTok?

Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Grace period may be necessary, but it needs to happen.

You don't pay for these products though, which removes most of your options to seek monetary damages for . The same argument applies to nearly all [free] software - whether it's Chromium or curl.

Re: How factories were made safe

#35

Post by adventured »

rtkwe wrote: post #28
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #24

The audacity of that tangent at the end. "Natural and inevitable"? People fought and died for your 40 hour work week. You know May Day? The Labor Day for the rest of the world? Commemorates the Haymarket Massacre, which was fighting for the 8 hour work day.

Yeah there’s a lot of people who don’t know the history of labor at all and have been convinced that companies without outside regulation would totally treat their employees well and not abuse, over work, injure, or flatly refuse to pay owed wages. It’s a real success story for the pro-business groups in the US and around the world.

I'm endlessly amused that the Richard Nixon years gave us OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Act, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, and NIOSH - National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health), the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), the Endangered Species Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act (proposed by the Nixon Administration, passed by Ford), the 1969 National Environmental Policy Act, and the excellent Clean Air Act amendments/extension of 1970.

Re: How factories were made safe

#36

Post by sanxiyn »

clipradiowallet wrote: post #34
sanxiyn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Grace period may be necessary, but it needs to happen.

You don't pay for these products though, which removes most of your options to seek monetary damages for . The same argument applies to nearly all [free] software - whether it's Chromium or curl.

I do pay for iPhone and Safari comes preinstalled on iPhone. Maybe either Apple should be liable for Safari or Safari should not be preinstalled on iPhone. You can't have it both ways.

Re: How factories were made safe

#37

Post by gruez »

sanxiyn wrote: post #19
bserge wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which software? Drone target acquisition or TikTok?

Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Grace period may be necessary, but it needs to happen.

> Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane?

Is is even possible to make a browser without 0days?

Re: How factories were made safe

#38

Post by sanxiyn »

gruez wrote: post #37
sanxiyn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Grace period may be necessary, but it needs to happen.

> Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Is is even possible to make a browser without 0days?

Is it even possible to make an airplane that does not crash?

Re: How factories were made safe

#39

Post by gruez »

sanxiyn wrote: post #38
gruez wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web browsers, to start. Why are Apple and Google not liable for zero days of Safari and Chrome? How is it sane? Is is even possible to make a browser without 0days?

Is it even possible to make an airplane that does not crash?

No. They crash all the time. You're suggesting that we hold airplane makers responsible for any and all crashes.

Re: How factories were made safe

#40

Post by rtkwe »

adventured wrote: post #35
rtkwe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there’s a lot of people who don’t know the history of labor at all and have been convinced that companies without outside regulation would totally treat their employees well and not abuse, over work, injure, or flatly refuse to pay owed wages. It’s a real success story for the pro-business groups in the US and around the world.

I'm endlessly amused that the Richard Nixon years gave us OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Act, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, and NIOSH - National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health), the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), the Endangered Species Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act (proposed by the Nixon Administration, passed by Ford), the 1969 Nationa…

It’s kind of crazy how fast American politics went off the rails. Really seems like it really kicks off with Reagan but I’m not versed enough to be sure if he’s the cause or just one of the symptoms (most likely both really in the end) but it’s always wild to see just how many of the ‘big government run amok’ agencies came out of the Nixon admin.
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