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Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

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Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#441
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Young girls are mean to each other, that’s a fact. >>> In all societies across time? Or just in American High schools and on Instagram? >> How do you know this fact? >My name is remarkEon and I went to middle and high school in the United States on a planet I call Earth. Ok, so you think your American High school experience gives you insight into all societies across time. Understood. Your answers make sense now.…

Is your claim that only in the United States is it that girls are mean to each other when they are in primary and secondary school? This seems like a much more extreme claim than mine. You have to argue that there’s something unique about the not_the_United_States schools such that there’s something nullifying intrafemale competition. It’s a claim so extreme that … I’d like to see some data to back it up.

> You have to argue that there’s something unique about the not_the_United_States schools such that there’s something nullifying intrafemale competition.

Why do you think this? You only have your school experience to go on. You have nothing to base this claim on.

I think it’s entirely possible that the conditions of school create much of the competition you are observing, and that US schools are more extreme than others.

School intentionally creates behaviors. There is no reason not to believe that it has side effects.

And yes, to get any insight into which of is right, we’d need someone to have studied it.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#442

It is disappointing to read some comments saying that "It is not FB/Insta's fault?". Those who don't see the challenges that these teens go through is clearly delusional. While there are some good things in the tech, it clearly has a negative side that impact children's mental health through unrealistic beauty standards, and trap them into dopamine loops. I still believe that ranking/recommendation models should be o…

> Those who don't see the challenges that these teens go through is clearly delusional.

No one is debating the challenges of coming of age in the age of the Internet. I'd disagree that its entirely FB's fault as if the rest of society, kids and parents alike, lack all agency to make sound choices - that they must passively consume and be consumed by all that FB offers... or that theses sorts of problems are best addressed by literally legislating morality.

Its convenient and easy to hate FB; expedient, really...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremist conduct keeps people engaged longer, so they see more ads. Facebook/YouTube/Twitter all exploit the dark side of human nature. They've been doing it for so many years, that it's difficult to imagine that it's unintentional. >in Google’s effort to keep people on its video platform as long as possible, “its algorithm seems to have concluded that people are drawn to content that is more extreme than what they…

These companies are always going to want to hold our attention but it's us at the end of the day who decide to give them our attention. I think as a society we need to prove that we are smarter than these companies and are capable of discipline and self-control. In corporate america, it's hard for me to see any private owned corporation doing what's in best interest for the public versus their own pockets.

> I think as a society we need to prove that we are smarter than these companies and are capable of discipline and self-control.

I think it's a losing game.

For as long as big social is allowed to be “free” with its paying customers being advertisers, it will keep benefitting from trolling and other unhealthy behaviours (narcissism?) that happen to drive up engagement and ad revenue. With user lock-in, full control over UI and algorithms at its disposal, big social has way too many tricks up its sleeve for your average tired-after-work-or-school, running-out-of-willpower, vulnerable user to consciously compensate for.

Normalising paid social (forcing interoperability, downgrading platforms to pipes) is probably the most straightforward way for us to finally gain the ability to vote with our wallet and to choose client software crafted with our needs in mind. (I’m not a proponent of regulation bloat or special rules for select big companies; I think a small but strategically focused general requirement could be enough for such a change to happen.)

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#444

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

I'm not defending Facebook and I just had some thoughts reading the quotes and am curious what you think of them. 1. I remember that while growing up fashion magazines, actors/actresses and I want to say peer pressure (but am fearful its incorrect) were a big source of body image issues. 2. Maybe it's a side effect of our society or "normal" to have security issues while growing up. We've been having good childhoods…

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Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a personal grudge against anyone saying (...) There is no need to have any grudge against me (I hope). I get it. I never said being a parent is an easy job. I acknowledge how hard it is but... > Facebook and Instagram are drug dealers If you teach your kids not to consume drugs, why Instagram should be any different?

In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it. That said, I understand your sentiment. No parent should be encouraging their children to become habitual cocaine users! One thing that does some "obvious" for this generation of parents: Work hard to educate your children on the dangers of traditional cigarette smoking. That…

> In some respects, "Say No to Drugs" seems out of date when some very advanced democracies have already legalised some drugs or are close to it.

I think there's a certain nuance there. Drugs (which ones?) can (should?) be legal - or at least their consumption decriminalized. We've made good progress already and yet much more is to be made.

But all this is not saying that drugs should be pushed hand over fist down people's throat and that billions should be spent on studying the ways people can be more encouraged to become drug users.

And this is what Facebook et al are doing. They are spending untold resources on devising the most efficient ways of making people addicted and ensuring that no other way exist of satisfying the cravings. They create echo chambers and push specifically topics that get the most response out of people.

And this is completely legal (currently). Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok etc... are allowed to be cool, hip, desirable and consumed in ways that the tobacco industry couldn't imagine in their wildest dreams during their heydays.

These companies can tap into the deepest secrets and desires of vast swathes of people in ways that is unprecedented.

I feel that the vices of the old world, like drugs, are chickenshit compared to the power that the new vices can wield over their captives.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#446
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a true statement. Surely connecting via social apps has had positive mental health benefits on at least one person. That alone would make it true. I think the problem is most people probably read the statement and don't realize just how weak the evidence required to make it true is.

I would interpret it as "connecting via social apps has a greater than absolute 0 probability of giving positive mental health benefits".

Then I think we're in agreement? "Connecting via social apps has a non-0 probability of giving (to whom? at least one person?) positive mental health benefits".

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#447

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Teen girls are not at all ready for pregnancy in any respect. Just because they started puberty doesn't mean puberty has been completed.

Exactly, I hate seeing discussions about "peak fertility," especially since the people posting about it usually don't know it's more like 30. [0] And more than that, the risk of complications is much higher for teenagers. [1] A relevant quote:

> Adolescent mothers (ages 10–19 years) face higher risks of eclampsia, puerperal endometritis, and systemic infections than women aged 20 to 24 years, and babies of adolescent mothers face higher risks of low birth weight, preterm delivery and severe neonatal conditions. (4)

And just because you might be in the "peak fertility" period doesn't mean you should rush to have children. If you are not ready for kids, they will suffer for it, and none of the girls I knew who got pregnant in high school were mature enough to handle a child and finish school (much less the fathers), so their parents and grandparents had to step in and do most of the parenting.

These kinds of discussions, especially combined with the evolutionary biology pseudoscience, really remind me of the way incel forums talk about women. Especially with the interesting absence of any mention of men's fertility, which also peaks around 30. [0]

[0]: https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2013/07/02/fertility-peaks-arou...

[1]: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/adolescent-...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#448
> Plus, “We’re standing directly between people and their bonuses,” one former researcher said.

Reminds me of something..

> It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It

Ah that’s it. Tried and trued. Interesting story of the quote here:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#449
It used to be that if you were queer - in any sense of the word - and lived in one of the countless small, conservative, traditional communities in this country, you were shit out of luck.

Now, thanks to the internet, there exists inclusive and positive communities for people of every type of background and experience. This simply did not exist for most people just a few decades ago, but now it's accessible to almost every young person in the country.

I don't mind bashing the bad about social media and the internet, but I am kind of sick of people overlooking the good.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#450
post #116

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

"As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power.." Species, not culture. The evolutionary explanations for such are not hard to come up with just with a bit of thought, and not hard to confirm in the literature either. Which also means the species isn't about to stop admiring those things any time soon. Which means, rather than the "boil the ocean, then boil it a few more times again" plan of trying to somehow "fix" the…

this is a much more compelling and eloquent way of saying "go touch grass"
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