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Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

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Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like companies can't seem to get their act together to offer some kind of rapid escalation/remediation service. Maybe it's time for legislation to force their hand. This could potentially cost a business a ton of money (and affect a non-trivial number of employees) in the process.

Would 'paid' support help? Like pay, say... $150 up front, which is refunded (partial or all) depending on the outcome (error on their end, you get refunded?) It runs the risk of turning 'support' in to a profit center, I support.

Not really. This should be an emergeny-use only type support. But don't penalize (by making them pay) for a screwup on your end.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We actually have an ongoing project to reduce the occurrence of these mistaken rejections by 90% by the end of this year. I think we’ll succeed at it. (They’re already down 50% since earlier this year.) More important than that is provide a way for people to get this revolved without having to make the front page of HN.

One particularly frustrating aspect of fraud prevention is that fraudsters are better than the rest of us at getting human support staff to do what they want. They have way more practice, and they learn techniques that work from other fraudsters.

I'll say the same thing about fraudsters I tell clients about hackers, ransomware gangs, etc. What they do is their jobs and some of them are quite good at those jobs. Don't think of them as the stereotype angry teen that might have come to mind 30 years ago - these days it's more likely that they look just like your IT department working from home - or like technical employees in a Russian government office in Moscow.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#234
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to contact me in particular — you can get in touch with anyone at Stripe. (Or even DM Stripe on Twitter.) With regard to the last part of your comment — absolutely. This is a final recourse when the system breaks, not a part of the system that we hope you ever have to use.

I don't doubt that from your perspective as the founder of Stripe, that's the workflow you'd like to have for when things "go wrong", but from the perspective of someone currently interacting with Stripe support, I strongly doubt that simply raising a support ticket or reaching out on Twitter would result in any meaningful movement on a rejection like this. Regarding Stripe's support: I emailed last night to confirm…

The only "solution" (if any) I can see to counter the negative experience (& associated PR) would be involvement in the appeals process, where you are allowed to effectively "state your case" via video call or submission of evidence, but this draws a thorny parallel to the judicial system, and I doubt Legal would sign off on such a process.

There's also the question/option of considering reputation, which also brings up scary thoughts about China's moves in that area. If you're complaining and are a well known highly voted participant on HN, YouTuber with thousands of subscribers, etc the risk that you as a public-ish figure are trying to scam is lower.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#235
post #108

(Stripe cofounder.) Ugh, apologies. Something very clearly went wrong here and we’re already investigating. Zooming out, a few broader comments: * Unlike most services, Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. We are de facto running a big bug bounty/incentive program for evading our fraudulent user detection systems. * Errors like thes…

[deleted]

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#238
post #108

(Stripe cofounder.) Ugh, apologies. Something very clearly went wrong here and we’re already investigating. Zooming out, a few broader comments: * Unlike most services, Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. We are de facto running a big bug bounty/incentive program for evading our fraudulent user detection systems. * Errors like thes…

I don’t understand the stripe hate in the replies. In the past when I worked with stripe on a mobile project they were always quick to reply, and I felt like they did a good job of helping us through difficult problems (at the time a new platform) that is rare from a customer support perspective.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#239
post #108

(Stripe cofounder.) Ugh, apologies. Something very clearly went wrong here and we’re already investigating. Zooming out, a few broader comments: * Unlike most services, Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. We are de facto running a big bug bounty/incentive program for evading our fraudulent user detection systems. * Errors like thes…

We actually have an ongoing project to reduce the occurrence of these mistaken rejections by 90% by the end of this year. I think we’ll succeed at it. (They’re already down 50% since earlier this year.)

It seems to me that if a company provides such an important service to other companies (i.e. functioning as that company's direct revenue source - payments), then if somewhere it is determined that Stripe no longer intends to provide that service, someone at Stripe should be reaching out proactively, via a telephone or other method, to the leadership at the customer and explaining to them in detail why the decision was made to terminate the relationship and what recourse they have.

I shudder to think of the impact something that an algorithm based decision like would have on my business in this scenario. I would be an absolute disaster, and could have far reaching implications for the viability of someone's business.

Every single decision where Stripe is terminating a relationship should have a clear path to a human being for resolution, and should be reviewed by a human before the decision is even made. Like, setup a conference call with leadership and work through the issue. Most fraudsters wouldn't go through that process anyway, and it provides a proactive approach to working with customers who obviously would be in a complete disaster recovery scenario if this occurred so it would be all hands on deck on the customers side. Nothing is worse than having all hands on deck to address a critical issue and feeling helpless because the other side of the equation is an auto-responder email box.

No business should be writing blog posts for help on something like this.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#240

Edwin from Stripe here. (OP, I've just sent you an email and we can talk more over there—I'm terribly sorry for the trouble.) I can't get into too many specifics about an individual business publicly, but unauthorized charges have high potential to be disputed in the near future—and while Stripe itself doesn't have a dispute threshold, the card networks require businesses to keep disputes low. Although that email in…

So, if I want to disrupt a competitor all I have to do is hire a bunch of darknet identify thieves and you'll shut down their merchant account?

Actually, yes. That will absolutely hurt them.
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