Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#171

Post by yunohn » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #135

yunohn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's not Facebook it's gonna be TikTok or something other platform. You are right that there will always be a different “drug” that exposes the same underlying societal issues. But given that FB+Insta are /algorithmically/ pushing these posts to users to increase engagement, it is their problem too.

Every company will push whatever it needs to maximize user attention.They are all out there selling ads to make money, I don't think the other players are different than Facebook.

Please stop with the incessant whataboutism.

Nobody is saying that this is not a general social media problem, just that this article is reporting on FB hiding crucial information.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#172

Post by csours » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

Crack and Coffee are both stimulants, but you can live your life on one of them.

From conspiracy theories to depression it seems like Social Media can be a deranging influence. Maybe we can make it more like Coffee, but simple algorithmic goals like 'engagement' or 'watch time' seem to engage with our worst impulses.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#173

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

revel wrote: post #153

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Can we please not react to this article by immediately blaming teenage girls? You have an article that shows one of the most powerful corporations in the world exploiting teenagers to boost revenues and lying about it in testimony before congress. That's the story.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#174

Post by vmception » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Amongst mammals, human females actual limited fertility is the odd thing.

Visual and maybe hormonal attractiveness may change over time with other mammals too, but not actual numeric quantity of eggs. (I'm not sure if there is broad enough data on egg viability across all mammals though, but the fixed quantity and therefore approximate time period of fertility is more easily seen)

Given that this variable is the different one, the differences in human populations (ie. the competition for being chosen) really should be evaluated with this aspect weighted more heavily.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#175

Post by jl6 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Your theory seems backwards. Cut-throat competition for mating opportunities should be a strategy for the least desirable, who have the greatest need to compete for the scarce resource. If you're top of the desirability scale, you are the scarce resource, and your job is to discern the best suitor amongst the many who put themselves forward.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#176

Post by Loughla » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #127

spockz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows how a statement can be factually true and completely disingenuous at the same time. Yes 1/3 are effected badly but we just say that it can have positive effects. Just omitting the fact that it often has a detrimental effect…

It sounds like this is part of the point you're making, but this sort of statement should only be considered a lie. Some philosophers might correctly call this "bullshit," however colloquially it's the same as a lie: it intends to deceive.

Honestly, though, when did 'technically correct' become the baseline for messaging? If you say what's 'technically correct' even if you ignore the entire mountain of steaming horse shit right behind it, you get a pass anymore.

Why? Why is this socially acceptable? Is this different from the past, or are we just more aware of it?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#177

Post by Enginerrrd » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

The primary objection I'd have would be that you haven't defined "young girls" here and the age group cohort (~14-18) that we're really talking about is actually probably NOT the most fertile cohort. There's overlap of course, but that'd probably be more like 18-25. Which, in my anecdotal experience is definitely a time where young women seem to treat each other a lot better.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#178

Post by J-dawg » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

revel wrote: post #153

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Can we please not react to this article by immediately blaming teenage girls? You have an article that shows one of the most powerful corporations in the world exploiting teenagers to boost revenues and lying about it in testimony before congress. That's the story.

I don't understand how you could read the parent comment and decide that it's "blaming" teen girls, unless you are deliberately arguing in bad faith.

Teenage girls are predisposed to behave in the way described, and Facebook/Instagram is profiting by exploiting that. Nothing about the explanation above is blaming them. If anything the comment makes a stronger case for Facebook's actions being immoral.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#179

Post by justToAddLink » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #144

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Your theory doesn't explain why boys don't act the same. Their attractiveness also dwindles with time - you could argue it's happening less steeply, but still.

just to add a source of the attractiveness declining less steeply:

Maestripieri, Dario et al. "A greater decline in female facial attractiveness during middle age reflects women’s loss of reproductive value". Frontiers in Psychology 5. (2014): 179. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.0017...

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#180

Post by aspaviento » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #122

aspaviento wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her An individual girl in 1995 had enough shows on TV and enough magazines to tell her she is not looking good.

Yeah, but people have a certain level of disconnect with the models, athletes, actors, and superstars you see on TV and in magazines. Facebook brings that to the next level by encouraging that sort of content from people who you can actually relate to and feeds it to you around the clock. IG is especially bad about this. And that's just some of the content. The algorithm is also just as happy to feed you a continuous…

> Yeah, but people have a certain level of disconnect with the models, athletes, actors, and superstars you see on TV and in magazines.

I'm not really sure about it. When highschool girls wore the same clothes the Spice Girls wore, had the same haircut they had and replicated their dances, for me that's a lot of connection.

I'm sure Facebook/Instagram have a lot to be blamed for but we (not just young girls; parents, teachers, etc) need to be responsible of our actions to some degree.