Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#141

Post by ethanbond » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #29

tw04 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

> and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life This is pretty much an internet problem, not a Facebook problem. The things people say to each other on forums or Twitter or Facebook, especially when anonymous (but not always), are quite often horrendous.

Guess those geniuses earning massive salaries are too dumb to figure out ways to counteract this effect ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or they’re paid massive salaries not to do that.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#142

Post by mattgreenrocks » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

One recent realization: I suspect many (read: more than just teen girls) see social media as a real-time status market. There is a constant stream of information, and the subtext of that is often status-oriented. Thus, for the status-hungry, keeping up with updates feels necessary even if it makes them feel terrible.

There are elements of addiction at work here, too, but if social media was a net negative it wouldn't be as sticky as it is now. People are obviously getting something they want from it.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#143

Post by commandlinefan » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

In the 80's people insisted that fashion magazines and beauty pageants were "toxic" for teen girls, for the exact same reasons. Apparently acknowledging that beauty exists is harmful to some people's mental health. Since it's unlikely that we're ever going to convince everybody that there's no such thing as physical beauty, maybe we'd be better off working out ways to help people come to terms with not being at the pinnacle of it while still accepting that there can be and is such a pinnacle.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#144

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #117

Facebook is an accelerant. The movie "Mean Girls" largely predated social media and highlighted many of the same issues. This seems to be a pretty ingrained issue, although I think most people agree that Facebook makes it worse. Here's a theory that's nearly guaranteed to land me in hot water: Why are young girls so awful to each other? I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that is has to do with "hormones," new…

Your theory doesn't explain why boys don't act the same. Their attractiveness also dwindles with time - you could argue it's happening less steeply, but still.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#145

Post by ruined » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #21

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

On the other hand, teens blaming Instagram does not mean Instagram actually has that effect.

you don't think people can identify something that hurts them?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#146

Post by handrous » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

The medium is the message.

The message of the Web isn't looking so great, all around, I'd say.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#147

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #112

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook and social platforms in general are just very efficient in amplifying all these elements of our culture

Is it as good at amplifying goodwill towards friends and neighbors as it is at amplifying negative sentiments? I don't think the former scales, whereas the latter lends itself to amplification. Authenticity and community require much more complexity to uphold than anger, anxiety, and resentment. I do take your point, and think that un-nuanced conversations about the evils of Social Media are unhelpful, but I think th…

> Is it as good at amplifying goodwill towards friends and neighbors as it is at amplifying negative sentiments?

Probably, but because of salience asymmetry, we don't realise it. Like the good stuff is often more local as you say, and more distributed, while the bad stuff makes the news.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#148

Post by OneEyedRobot » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

Put the logic and profit motive of a slot machine in everyone's pocket. What could go wrong?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#149

Post by helen___keller » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

Factorium wrote: post #99

rg111 wrote: post #66

I don't blame Facebook (or Twitter, or any particular company) for this. We can only blame scale . Some things are much more scalable than others, and "beauty" scales. And the "occurrence of beauty" does, too. Before the advent of scale on almost every aspect of our lives, a local musician or theatre group found easy income. Now, since after the invention of gramophones, more people can listen to less and less musici…

We need Government regulation. Specifically, to not display the # of 'likes', friends, followers and other similar metrics publicly on each page. Remove this metric and you remove the major gamification/psychological element.

I think that's an interesting approach although I'm not convinced that's sufficient. Is addictive content less addictive without a visible metric? It removes one potentially harmful aspect but teen girls will still see feeds full of beautiful models living in LA mega mansions.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#150

Post by ajsnigrutin » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

This is the problem with all social networks, instagram is just the most popular.

Imagine working overtime for months, saving money, paying for a hotel room at some seaside vacation place, travel in a shitty plane and in a shitty buy to that location, be tired, sleep the first of the three nights there on a shitty bed, eat shitty breakfast, go to the shitty with sewer flowing into the water 100m away...

...and then you take out your camera, pull in your stomach hard, pose in a way that hides body imperfections, hold in your hand a really shitty cocktail, that you paid half your days spending budget for, be carfeul to frame in a way, that the sewer is not visible, and click...

...you now have a perfect photo of someone enjoying their perfect vacation on the beach, drinking a good looking cocktail, enjoying themselves. Maybe even more than one, so you can post them even after you've gone back home.

And what do the viewers who of course follow hundreds of people see? A bunch of happy people, enojing their lives, while they "slave away" at their shitty jobs.

No wonder people get depressed.