Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#131

Post by aspaviento » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

andreime wrote: post #106

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/egPlc “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing... “We make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” said one slide from 2019, summarizing research about teen girls who experience the issues. “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiet…

I'm not defending Facebook and I just had some thoughts reading the quotes and am curious what you think of them. 1. I remember that while growing up fashion magazines, actors/actresses and I want to say peer pressure (but am fearful its incorrect) were a big source of body image issues. 2. Maybe it's a side effect of our society or "normal" to have security issues while growing up. We've been having good childhoods…

The less I want is to defend Facebook but I think lately people don't want to acknowledge their own responsibilities. It's like every time there is a problem, the cause is someone/something else. I don't think Instagram is impossed to anyone. Young people can feel the pressure to use it because their friends use it but they aren't forced to do so.

From the article it seems that young girls know about the toxicity in the application, why they keep using it? if their parents are aware too, why do they let their daughters use it?

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#132

Post by pantsforbirds » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

earthscienceman wrote: post #98

I'll make a comment that tries to be different than the range of criticism here already. Instagram is toxic for everyone . For reasons too personal to put here, I've been pretty depressed and dysfunctional lately and I've unintentionally discovered the experience of doomscrolling. The output of the instagram algorithm is absolutely terrifying. It has the perfect metrics (swipe time, profile browsing, etc etc) to prey…

I mean it helps you auto curate content, but you can tell it what you do or don't want too.

I was getting hella bikini girls for a while but a few "not interested" and they are all gone. Now my feed is just people I know and my explore page is entirely almost woodworking content with a little bit of car stuff or travel stuff.

I think of it like reddit. The front page or all of reddit is absolute hot garbage that seems intentionally made to be divisive politically at this point (even on non political subreddits), but I also have a curated part of reddit with my woodworking and programming and video game hobbies i can browse happily.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#133

Post by ___luigi » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

It is disappointing to read some comments saying that "It is not FB/Insta's fault?". Those who don't see the challenges that these teens go through is clearly delusional. While there are some good things in the tech, it clearly has a negative side that impact children's mental health through unrealistic beauty standards, and trap them into dopamine loops.

I still believe that ranking/recommendation models should be open, parents/individuals should have -at least- the choice to make these algorithms less harmful.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#134

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#135

Post by joelbluminator » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

yunohn wrote: post #37

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

> If it's not Facebook it's gonna be TikTok or something other platform. You are right that there will always be a different “drug” that exposes the same underlying societal issues. But given that FB+Insta are /algorithmically/ pushing these posts to users to increase engagement, it is their problem too.

Every company will push whatever it needs to maximize user attention.They are all out there selling ads to make money, I don't think the other players are different than Facebook.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#136

Post by rmah » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #100

Most everyone socialized fine for thousands of years. Some people who didn't socialize well, essentially nerds, invented social media and for some reason everyone decided to begin socializing this way - the way nerds imagined it would be best. It's no wonder everyone is a neurotic, anxious mess.

LOL, that's funny because it's (sorta) true!

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#137

Post by keville » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #56

bthrn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark’s use of the word “can” is what makes it technically not perjury.

And Frosted Sugar Bombs can be part of a nutritious breakfast.

"I won't eat any cereal that doesn't turn the milk purple."

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#138

Post by acdha » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

raman162 wrote: post #97

GeekyBear wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremist conduct keeps people engaged longer, so they see more ads. Facebook/YouTube/Twitter all exploit the dark side of human nature. They've been doing it for so many years, that it's difficult to imagine that it's unintentional. >in Google’s effort to keep people on its video platform as long as possible, “its algorithm seems to have concluded that people are drawn to content that is more extreme than what they…

These companies are always going to want to hold our attention but it's us at the end of the day who decide to give them our attention. I think as a society we need to prove that we are smarter than these companies and are capable of discipline and self-control. In corporate america, it's hard for me to see any private owned corporation doing what's in best interest for the public versus their own pockets.

> I think as a society we need to prove that we are smarter than these companies and are capable of discipline and self-control.

Kind of like how we said that the answer to alcohol & tobacco was to show self-control, not restrict sales and advertising? Expecting people to go one on one against enormous companies’ profit motives is a recipe for failures.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#139

Post by raman162 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #115

raman162 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we need to hold ourselves responsible for our actions. If it's not going to be facebook capitalizing on our behavior, it will be some other company. From the article it seems that most teens are aware that they have an unhealthy relationship with instagram. Tackling this issue in a sustainable way is something I believe most teens are capable of this with the right guidance.

If we should hold ourselves responsible, so should companies. Tackling this issue in a sustainable way is something I believe most companies are capable of with the right guidance.

Morally I agree with you but the pessimist in me thinks that is unrealistic. I believe facebook is primarily motivated by their earnings. If an unhealthy behavior with instagram leads to more engagement, which means more ad sales, why would facebook interfere dramatically with that recipe? I won't be surprsied if they already A/B tested more "healthy" types of content with their feed and recognized it lead to a dip in engagement.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#140

Post by earthscienceman » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

pantsforbirds wrote: post #132

earthscienceman wrote: post #98

I'll make a comment that tries to be different than the range of criticism here already. Instagram is toxic for everyone . For reasons too personal to put here, I've been pretty depressed and dysfunctional lately and I've unintentionally discovered the experience of doomscrolling. The output of the instagram algorithm is absolutely terrifying. It has the perfect metrics (swipe time, profile browsing, etc etc) to prey…

I mean it helps you auto curate content, but you can tell it what you do or don't want too. I was getting hella bikini girls for a while but a few "not interested" and they are all gone. Now my feed is just people I know and my explore page is entirely almost woodworking content with a little bit of car stuff or travel stuff. I think of it like reddit. The front page or all of reddit is absolute hot garbage that seem…

Sure. I know this, and it's true. But by analogy, this is like saying "heroin is only addictive in small doses if you choose to take less". Is it good advice? Absolutely. Will everyone follow it? Nope. Should we despise heroin addicts? No. We should create a better system.