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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#111

Post by heavenlyblue »

causi wrote: post #108
neximo64 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure why you absolutely need the booster shot, could you explain more there? Is that personal preference. Having both almost entirely eliminates the risk of hospitalisation from the other strains.

People who got vaccinated five or six months ago are seeing their immunity rate drop to around eighty percent. That's double the risk compared to a fresh vaccination.

Is that entirely true even for people who have a life outside their own home? I would assume being constantly bombarded by the viruses outside would keep their immunity higher than expected?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#112

Post by causi »

standardUser wrote: post #110
causi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who got vaccinated five or six months ago are seeing their immunity rate drop to around eighty percent. That's double the risk compared to a fresh vaccination.

Studies have primarily observed a modest decline in effectiveness among older people and the immunocompromised, which is why some jurisdictions have recommended boosters for these people (Israel, California). There is a reason boosters have not been approved anywhere for the general population, and that is because so far the data does not indicate they are necessary.

Necessary and useful are two vastly different things. My state is throwing expired vaccine into the garbage. I'd take a booster even if it only made me five percent safer.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#113

Post by nradov »

causi wrote: post #108
neximo64 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure why you absolutely need the booster shot, could you explain more there? Is that personal preference. Having both almost entirely eliminates the risk of hospitalisation from the other strains.

People who got vaccinated five or six months ago are seeing their immunity rate drop to around eighty percent. That's double the risk compared to a fresh vaccination.

Do you have a citation for that 80% number?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#114

Post by nradov »

mercy_dude wrote: post #55
blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

> “ recipients of vaccines with low efficacy or those who are immunocompromised2 (although people who did not respond robustly to the primary vaccination” How do we measure it? Like is there a way to know through antibody tests?

There is more to immunity than antibody tests. Antibody levels typically drop after a while, but memory cells remain active.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#115

Post by Zigurd »

mercy_dude wrote: post #55
blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

> “ recipients of vaccines with low efficacy or those who are immunocompromised2 (although people who did not respond robustly to the primary vaccination” How do we measure it? Like is there a way to know through antibody tests?

Even if there is a good answer to "How do we measure it?" it might cost more to know than it does to administer a third shot.

There remains an argument (or a "rebuke," as the article puts it) that first world countries that are well placed to administer booster shots to the fully vaccinated should instead contribute to faster vaccination worldwide, even on a self-interested basis in order to reduce the cases where new variants can emerge.

But that is a tenuous argument. A simple first question unanswered in the article is: How much of the unvaccinated population lives where vaccines requiring ULT freezers can be distributed? It may be that every place well equipped to use those kinds of vaccines will do best to get their total vaccination rate as high as possible and administer booster shots to reduce breakthrough infections, so normal activity can resume. Supply chain disruption is not a trivial problem. Having safe workplaces is not a luxury.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#116

Post by nullc »

sradman wrote: post #77

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data,…

> a strong indicator that the U.S. will follow the same path. British Columbia's Dr. Bonnie Henry indicated yesterday [4] that

...an even stronger indicator is that the Biden administration seems to have asked two multi-decade long FDA vaccine approval experts to resign following them authoring this report saying that the evidence didn't support the widespread use of boosters as a public health measure.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#117

Post by nradov »

hef19898 wrote: post #13
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

The US and other developed countries have purchased vaccine doses from the manufacturers at the negotiated price and then donated some of those to developing countries. So did those doses at least the profit was the same.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#118

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #19
b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

> This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. It also implies a level of consensus that doesn't exist. "Vaccine experts", as a whole, don't hold this opinion. This is about two specific dissenters in the FDA. It's not a completely cut and dry subject. There are tradeoffs with all such decisions, such as the value of a booster in one individual vs. a first injection to another in a different part o…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#119

Post by nradov »

fabian2k wrote: post #54
swader999 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing transmission isn't good enough! If you have an R naught above one you're still in trouble. It's common knowledge that countries with highest vaccination rates have spikes in cases right now. Israel and Gibraltar for example. Herd immunity for this was always impossible.

Israel isn't among the countries with the highest vaccination rates anymore, quite a few other countries have overtaken it.

Singapore has an 81% full vaccination rates but is experiencing a rise in symptomatic cases.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/seriously-ill-cov...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#120

Post by ericb »

Tepix wrote: post #74
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

You are not protected againts new mutations just because they originate from another place in the world. You are not reducing the chances for new mutations. Keeping the vaccine to yourself will not help you.

I think you're misunderstanding the intent of the parent post.

They are saying letting vaccines go to the rest of the world is still the right course of action even if your motives were purely selfish. By reducing the number of infections elsewhere, the virus has fewer chances to mutate and return to and endanger you.

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