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Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

justuseapp.com

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Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machine learning models with false positives aren't the problem. The lack of a timely appeals process that involves a human is.

But that’s why the prices are so low. Society will put up with it as long as it works most of the time, because algorithms without humans are cheap.

stripe's prices / fees are not really that much lower, they do have great profit margins though

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machine learning models with false positives aren't the problem. The lack of a timely appeals process that involves a human is.

But that’s why the prices are so low. Society will put up with it as long as it works most of the time, because algorithms without humans are cheap.

I'm not sure about that. The companies employing these kind of techniques are typically making huge profits. I suspect supply and demand would dictate that a bunch of the cost came out of those

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#43
The more stories I read about VISA/Mastercard (yes, Stripe is there to accept payments of these networks) the less I want to use them. The only alternative I found so far were cryptos. (yes, there is paypal and such - but I have never seen any brick and mortar shop accepting it)

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#44
post #7

I guess stripe wasn't kidding when they said they would disrupt online payments. On a more serious note; How much further is society going to allow this kind of thing? Hiding behind templated e-mails without any explanation. Disrupting people's lives who become collateral damage with no way out.

I rather trust cryptography (and its currencies) than be dependent on VISA or similar.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#45
post #27

These types of problems could be fixed by doing the three things big tech hates: 1. Hire human beings 2. Empower them to fix problems 3. Let your users talk to them

Hiring humans is not as scalable as technology is. You can't just hire 150 more customer support agents _each month_ like you can fire up another Kubernetes cluster. They need training, middle managers, leads, special training, good tooling, office space, adjusted KPI-s, etc.

Ideally, good companies will find a balance with AI and human operators that's also sustainable as a business.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#46
post #37

I have a hunch their main concern is this kind of marketing on your site: "Access the American market Our credit card comes with a U.S. billing address, so you can unlock features restricted to the U.S or Western markets especially if you don't live there." https://justuseapp.com/free-trial-card

Stripe might not even be allowed to say the reason if they brushed up against anti-money laundering policies. This is probably the exact reason for the ban, and the reason they wouldn't talk to the company about it.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#47
There's an interesting efficiency/reverse-opportunity-cost issue here.

If you set up your ML so that it works x% of the time, you might very well have a profitable business even if you end up accidentally screwing over a bunch of folks. But no competitor can challenge you in the marketplace because the human cost of answering phones and emails to find that last little bit of efficiency is overwhelmingly disproportionate to any economic value the business would gain.

Many of us like to bang on businesses as being amoral and impersonal, but most are trying to do something people want, only better and more efficiently. ML may be providing an upper limit to efficiency by taking out any opportunity to do some serious analysis. Because in many cases removing that last 1-5% in inefficiency is the bit that leads to a completely new way of working, in many areas we may be boxing ourselves in to a very long-term status quo.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#48
Recently quality of service at Stripe has gone seriously down the drain.

They arbitrarily closed my account a while ago, and after following their draconian re-activation process (somehow my government issued ID is not good enough to identify me, they need to verify the same information and ID in a video call) I think we’re now at 20+ emails and counting.

I just gave up and will go with a different provider or open a new account since it’s easier.

At some point Stripe was the provider that took everyone, but they’ve become allergic to any kind of risk and trust nothing.

Re: Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute

#50
post #27

These types of problems could be fixed by doing the three things big tech hates: 1. Hire human beings 2. Empower them to fix problems 3. Let your users talk to them

Hiring humans is not as scalable as technology is. You can't just hire 150 more customer support agents _each month_ like you can fire up another Kubernetes cluster. They need training, middle managers, leads, special training, good tooling, office space, adjusted KPI-s, etc. Ideally, good companies will find a balance with AI and human operators that's also sustainable as a business.

If your number of customers and revenue increases by 100%, you should be able to scale your customer support by a similar amount.
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