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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#71

Post by ChemSpider »

hef19898 wrote: post #13
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

Fake news alert: Biontech/Pfizer never "dissed" AZ.

They never commented on AZ. You can not blame BT if everyone wants "the best" for themselves.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#73

Post by [deleted] »

dtech wrote: post #17
swader999 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will these vaccines that don't produce immunity lead to less severe variants? If they mute severity of illness they will lead to more severe variants. This is basic.

They do provide immunity in 95% (conservative) of cases, so it massively reduces the population that mutations can happen in.

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#74

Post by Tepix »

skrebbel wrote: post #7
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

You are not protected againts new mutations just because they originate from another place in the world. You are not reducing the chances for new mutations.

Keeping the vaccine to yourself will not help you.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#75

Post by pessimizer »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

Good cause if they are anything like the 2nd dose shots they should find a way to compensate people for missing 2 days of work with headaches, fever, chills, body ache, etc.

I don't know why the US is never serious about these things. We don't get a day off to vote, we don't get days off to get our mandatory vaccination.

But we get Juneteenth? I'm not from Texas, and where my family lived it didn't matter much that slavery was over until the 1950s. So an awkward, meaningless gesture towards black people for helping the DNC defeat Sanders is prioritized ahead of democracy and epidemic disease.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#76

Post by NoPie »

blagie wrote: post #44
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you "absolutely" need a booster shot? Are you immunocompromised? How do you know what your level of protection currently is? Even if you did a test to look at your antibody titers, antibody titers aren't the end all and be all of immunity (think T-cells).

Well, I'm not flying to Vietnam tomorrow, so I'm not claiming I personally need a booster shot. However: - Vietnam is an epicenter right now, so my odds of catching COVID would be high. - They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care (and if I do, I'm taking a bed from someone else) We don't have full data, so the right way to think about this is with…

I think you are trying to overanalyse and overrule the experts here.

Experts are saying that with the regards to the whole population currently community wide booster shots are not needed. It may not apply to each individual case (such as immunocompromised etc., or people with very specific risk, like those going to Vietnam) but this was never to be meant an individual assessment. Many people are confusing these two things. Even though it does not apply for majority of readers, trying to imagine a different situation for a specific individual is not necessary.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#77

Post by sradman »

There is not strong evidence supporting a 3rd booster dose in immunocompetent people. We have partly seen a misinterpretation of the Israeli data [1] and specifically the single low effectiveness value that appears to be the result of Simpson's Paradox [2]. Dr. Fauci reported this single value decline from the high nineties to the high seventies on Andy Slavitt's podcast [3]. Pfizer's CEO has promoted this same data, Israel's 3rd dose campaign is well under way, and Fauci's public statements are a strong indicator that the U.S. will follow the same path. British Columbia's Dr. Bonnie Henry indicated yesterday [4] that the Canadian numbers do not yet support a general 3rd dose booster but, like the UK, a longer 2nd dose interval due to a First Doses First (FDF) strategy may be a factor.

The 3rd dose is safe and will probably provide a small benefit to the recipient as Shane Crotty described in TWiV 802 [5]. The downside is that these doses are in short supply globally where they could make a significant difference.

[1] https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

[3] https://lemonadamedia.com/podcast/dr-fauci-answers-your-bigg...

[4] (YouTube ~3.5min @36m45s) https://youtu.be/93Rnjmr7iCk?t=36m45s

[5] https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-802/

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#78

Post by aiilns »

fsh wrote: post #33
mandmandam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand the vaccines for all push: A - The benefit for young people seems to be outweighed by the risk, for a given time period. The risk of mortality from vaccine induced clots in under 40s is twice the risk of death from Covid [0] (post relates to AZ but other vaccines has similar clot risks). The risk of hospitalisation from myocarditis is a multiple of the risk of hospitalisation from Corona, es…

This is simply not true. The CDC has published a detailed analysis of the vaccine efficacy and known side effects [1]. This clearly shows that the benefit of being vaccinated vastly outweighs the risk due to side effects in all age groups >= 18 (only adults were considered in this analysis). Even in young males (18-29) they estimate that the risk of hospital admission due to COVID is an order of magnitude higher than…

I only skimmed this now, don't have the time to read it, but a few things to keep in mind:

1. Do they take into account the underreporting in VAERS? That could mean far higher adverse effects than those reported.

2. Are there any calculations regarding how the situation changes? As new variants emerge (like Delta), as immunity from vaccination wanes etc, how much will a vaccine prevent severe illness and death? Real world data seems to suggest vaccine efficacy isn't as great as previously thought.

3. Another point to keep in mind is that there are therapeutic solutions and as time goes on, hopefully better medications will be readily available, getting covid-19 will result in less severe illness and death.

I'm not against vaccination, I just think that these are all things we should consider.

Perhaps scientists have considered all this very carefully and have reached the conclusion that vaccination for all is better for the individual as well as for the society - I haven't looked deeply to find these answers. However, if all this has been carefully considered they & journalists/media really fail to communicate the science well.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#79

Post by ctrlp »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #38
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

If they can keep the Moderna, and Pfizer vaccine, at below freeing? I just picture America the "great" delivering vaccines, and there's no infrastructure on the other end. On a selfish note, I wouldn't mind closing all ports of entry until this virus is truly under control.

Good luck closing the U.S. southern border.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#80

Post by fsh »

zarzavat wrote: post #25
b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

How do they propose to get Pfizer shots that have to be stored at -70 C, to areas in developing countries that need first doses? As far as I can see, the vaccine that is actually suitable for developing countries is the AstraZeneca one, and this isn't often used in the west because of the blood clot issues.

They will use insulated containers with dry ice, same as everywhere else. This might not work in the middle of the jungle, but most developing contries actually have roads and trucks.
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