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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#61

Post by tut-urut-utut »

dmix wrote: post #34

I’m curious what happened to all of the other vaccines that were in development, which we heard about in 2020. Now it still only seems to be Moderna and Pfizer. If supply is a major constraint we would benefit from expanding the number of options in the market and have more pharma production built in other countries. Although the pharma cartel is a very small community with a few mega firms. Making vaccine developmen…

Sputnik V is alive and kicking, but not in the western world. Russia is giving licence to produce it, and there are already several other countries that produce that vaccine.

There are also two (maybe three) Chinese vaccines that are distributed around the world.

AstraZeneca didn't suddenly disappear, despite the bad press in some western countries. There's Johnson&Johnson too.

But you are right, Moderna & Biontech/Pfizer are the favourites of the media and regulators in the western world.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#62

Post by red_trumpet »

m0llusk wrote: post #58

Ah, yes. The eat your dinner because kids are starving in Africa argument. Too bad they didn't mention the exceptions such as people with damaged immune systems, but why bother trying to get things right when you are scoring political points?

> Too bad they didn't mention the exceptions

What are you talking about? From the article:

> They did say booster doses could be appropriate for immunocompromised people, and indeed that population can get a third dose of an mRNA vaccine.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#63

Post by hef19898 »

ctrlp wrote: post #59
hef19898 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

It's fascinating how the vaccine makers have come out of this smelling like roses to so many and I wonder how long it will last. Not long ago, the NYT could write "the turpitude of the pharmaceutical industry is so commonplace that it has become part of the cultural wallpaper.” [0] Now we all seem very happy to accept their products and believe their claims. Truly wonderful to behold. I can recall books and arguments…

Yeah, and the one company that did the right thing (TM), AZ, by selling the vaccine at cost is the one who's image suffered the most. Strange times we live in.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#65

Post by exhilaration »

mercy_dude wrote: post #55
blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

> “ recipients of vaccines with low efficacy or those who are immunocompromised2 (although people who did not respond robustly to the primary vaccination” How do we measure it? Like is there a way to know through antibody tests?

If you want to know whether you need the booster or not, and you're in the US, the spike antibody test ("COVID-19 Blood Spike Protein AB") falls under Covid testing, so if you have insurance it's covered with no out of pocket expense. You can get it at most urgent care clinics, and then you can find out exactly what your antibody levels are.

I got my Moderna 2nd shot in February and my antibody levels are 1483 (out of 2500) so I am satisfied and not in any hurry to get the booster.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#66

Post by m0llusk »

swader999 wrote: post #47
foota wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. The CDC reports ~3,500 people below 30 dying of covid, as opposed to a rate of 7 in 1 million developing a blood clot (which isn't implicitly fatal), or 2,800 if everyone were vaccinated. Aside from that, vaccination helps everyone by helping to prevent the spread of the virus.

Except that it doesn't prevent spread. If you are less symptomatic because vaccine limited the severity, you will be more likely to be functioning socially and spreading it. Also, a million doses to kids will likely result in one less ICU admission but create six myocarditus cases. What's the five year average outcome for those six kids?

Myocarditus tends to be brief and harmless, especially if induced by vaccine.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#67

Post by MomoXenosaga »

blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

Not all reporting there are good journalists out there.

Headline from RTL: Gezondheidsraad: derde prik alleen zinvol voor mensen met afweerstoornis

Listen to the experts, write down what they say. Basic journalism.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#68

Post by LurkingPenguin »

blagie wrote: post #44
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you "absolutely" need a booster shot? Are you immunocompromised? How do you know what your level of protection currently is? Even if you did a test to look at your antibody titers, antibody titers aren't the end all and be all of immunity (think T-cells).

Well, I'm not flying to Vietnam tomorrow, so I'm not claiming I personally need a booster shot. However: - Vietnam is an epicenter right now, so my odds of catching COVID would be high. - They are well beyond hospital capacity, so if I do have a serious case, it's uncertain I'll receive quality care (and if I do, I'm taking a bed from someone else) We don't have full data, so the right way to think about this is with…

> We do have multiple studies about how immunity wanes over time from vaccination. Those provide better ground-truth data than theoretical arguments.

I believe the studies you're referring to are those that address efficacy against symptomatic infection, not severe illness. Unless you're in a high-risk group because of age or comorbidities, with two doses of an mRNA vaccine within the past 8 months, to my knowledge all studies to date indicate that the average person's protection against severe illness and hospitalization is exceedingly high. This is probably related to the T and B cell immunity created by your body's response to the vaccines, which are more difficult to measure than antibody titers.

I traveled to/from a hotzone in Asia at the beginning of the pandemic and from Asia to the US and back to get vaccinated. My opinion as an expat and avid traveler is that if you have any concerns about your ability to receive adequate care in the case that you get sick, you should reconsider travel at this time. Since the vaccines clearly do not provide sterilizing immunity and everyone's immune response is different, there really are no guarantees, especially if you're going to be in environments where your exposure is high (both in terms of number of contacts and contacts that could lead to exposure of high viral loads).

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#69

Post by swader999 »

fabian2k wrote: post #54
swader999 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing transmission isn't good enough! If you have an R naught above one you're still in trouble. It's common knowledge that countries with highest vaccination rates have spikes in cases right now. Israel and Gibraltar for example. Herd immunity for this was always impossible.

Israel isn't among the countries with the highest vaccination rates anymore, quite a few other countries have overtaken it.

Ok well you can't beat Gibraltar at 99%. But you look at other countries. New Zealand is a good one. Their hospitals are getting swamped with kids right now with severe RSV. Why? They've had their immune systems degraded from some of the most severe lockdowns I the planet. And admittedly they aren't in a covid spike but the effective lockdown has created other problems.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#70

Post by swader999 »

m0llusk wrote: post #66
swader999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it doesn't prevent spread. If you are less symptomatic because vaccine limited the severity, you will be more likely to be functioning socially and spreading it. Also, a million doses to kids will likely result in one less ICU admission but create six myocarditus cases. What's the five year average outcome for those six kids?

Myocarditus tends to be brief and harmless, especially if induced by vaccine.

We don't have enough data and time to say that yet.
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