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Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

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Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#21

Post by swader999 »

dtech wrote: post #17
swader999 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will these vaccines that don't produce immunity lead to less severe variants? If they mute severity of illness they will lead to more severe variants. This is basic.

They do provide immunity in 95% (conservative) of cases, so it massively reduces the population that mutations can happen in.

They reduce severity of illness, and don't produce sterilizing immunity and eliminate transmission. And that's the problem, if you pick up a nasty mutation but because of vaccine you are able to still function, you are more likely to be out and about spreading it.

And when your limited immunity wanes in a few months this mutinous bastard copy you pushed on the masses may come back to bite you in the ass.

Maybe not though if you got your booster in time and if they designed it to match. Better hope your country went with the gold subscription.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#22

Post by apetrovic »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

Good cause if they are anything like the 2nd dose shots they should find a way to compensate people for missing 2 days of work with headaches, fever, chills, body ache, etc.

It's like an insurance - you pay with chills now to avoid bigger hit later (more serious sickness or death).

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#23

Post by oytis »

ajross wrote: post #19
b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

> This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. It also implies a level of consensus that doesn't exist. "Vaccine experts", as a whole, don't hold this opinion. This is about two specific dissenters in the FDA. It's not a completely cut and dry subject. There are tradeoffs with all such decisions, such as the value of a booster in one individual vs. a first injection to another in a different part o…

It's not just a couple of dissenters, the official position of WHO is the same - we need to vaccinate the whole world before booster shots and vaccinating children in the rich countries.

As I see it there _is_ a consensus among scientists and healthcare professionals, but not among politicians who see booster shots necessary to keep their national economies up.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#24

Post by est31 »

raesene9 wrote: post #14
occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

I'd agree in the ideal world that's exactly what should happen, however in reality there are a load of unadministered doses in the US ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437617018782449668?s=2... ) which will go to waste if not used, so it would seem to make sense to use those for boosters where they're available.

What about sending the unused doses to developing countries? Then they wouldn't go to waste.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#25

Post by zarzavat »

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

How do they propose to get Pfizer shots that have to be stored at -70 C, to areas in developing countries that need first doses?

As far as I can see, the vaccine that is actually suitable for developing countries is the AstraZeneca one, and this isn't often used in the west because of the blood clot issues.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#26

Post by XorNot »

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

The problem with this sort of analysis is that the logistical concerns of shipping vaccine doses are immense. For one thing, single "doses" don't exist - both Pfizer and Astrazeneca are distributed in multi-dose vials. If you as a patient are given a dose at the end of the day, and no one else is available right then and there to receive it, then that's anywhere from 1 to 5 doses which are literally thrown away.

As vaccination rates rise, the mere existence of vaccine stocks in countries with high vaccination rates means doses will be wasted - i.e. keeping the bare minimum on hand to vaccinate people as they need it means we have quite a lot of surplus doses which will otherwise definitely be wasted.

Hence the analysis of boosters: if there's any benefit at all to high risk groups (i.e. healthcare providers who overwhelmingly now were vaccinated about 8 months ago), then that's a productive use of local vaccine capacity which has to exist in some form (i.e. new people are hitting "vaccine recommended" age every day).

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#27

Post by orwin »

swader999 wrote: post #12
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

How will these vaccines that don't produce immunity lead to less severe variants? If they mute severity of illness they will lead to more severe variants. This is basic.

I heard against the Delta variant, RNA vaccines help divide the chance of contaminating others by at least two, even if you're asymptomatic (because basically, the virus last half the tine in your body). And also, since you're contaminated for less time, there is fewer chance of a variant popping out of a vaccinated person.

Take it as someone who heard someone talk about it, did not research himself (because i don't really care) and isn't really sure of what the truth is. See this comment as a clue if this stuff interest you.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#28

Post by raesene9 »

est31 wrote: post #24
raesene9 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree in the ideal world that's exactly what should happen, however in reality there are a load of unadministered doses in the US ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437617018782449668?s=2... ) which will go to waste if not used, so it would seem to make sense to use those for boosters where they're available.

What about sending the unused doses to developing countries? Then they wouldn't go to waste.

yeah ideally that should happen :) Just it hasn't so the choice isn't "use locally or send abroad" it's "use locally or let them go to waste"

TBF I guess this must be a really complex logistical challenge.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#29

Post by LurkingPenguin »

blagie wrote: post #9

The paper is thoughtful. The reporting on it is reckless. An accurate headline would be: "Vaccine experts: Widespread booster mandates aren't needed now," or perhaps "recommendations" There's a line between: * Mandatory. * Recommended. * Allowed. * Banned. If I am flying to do humanitarian work in Vietnam tomorrow, I absolutely need a booster shoot. Right now, the only way to get that is to go to a state which doesn'…

Why do you "absolutely" need a booster shot? Are you immunocompromised? How do you know what your level of protection currently is?

Even if you did a test to look at your antibody titers, antibody titers aren't the end all and be all of immunity (think T-cells).

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#30

Post by encryptluks2 »

newsbinator wrote: post #3
encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

Good cause if they are anything like the 2nd dose shots they should find a way to compensate people for missing 2 days of work with headaches, fever, chills, body ache, etc.

The compensation is not missing weeks or years due to Covid... or in rarer cases, you know, dying.

Yes, not having a place to live is so much better than the 99.9% survival rate for someone in my age group.
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